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If a PC/NPC has dual weapon weapon mastery and is dual wielding and takes double attack does he get one extra attack on a full round attack or two?

Hmm is it double attack per weapon being used, or just one extra attack a round no matter what attack action you are taking?

My understanding is that double attack gives you one extra attack period, not one extra attack per weapon. So if you had dual weapon mastery and nothing else, you'd get two attacks; if you had double attack too, you'd get three attacks; and if you had triple attack as well, you'd get four attacks (assuming you're okay with the massive negs).

This is the correct reading of it. Essentially, the two feat types add to each other; they don't multiply.

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Yep. Look at Grievous' errata'd stat block in the Core Rulebook for an example of Triple Attack and Dual Weapon Mastery.

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With Dual Weapon Mastery and Double Attack, you get a total of 3 attacks on a full round attack. With DWM 1 and Double Attack, you can make 3 attacks but you suffer a -10 penalty to all 3 attacks (-5 for DWM 1 and -5 for Double Attack).



To make more than 1 attack per round, you MUST use a full-round action. It doesn’t matter whether you are using Dual Weapon Mastery or Double Attack or both.

Also, just a side point: The Dual Weapon Mastery feats allow you to dual wield ANY weapons. But when you select the Double Attack feat, you must choose a SPECIFIC weapon group or single exotic weapon. So if selected Double Attack (lightsabers), and you are wielding a lightsaber and an advanced melee weapon, you can use Double Attack only with the lightsaber. You can still make 3 attacks with Double Attack and Dual Weapon Mastery. But the attacks must be lightsaber + lightsaber + adv melee weapon.

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Even more... could you use Rapid Strike on all of the attacks?

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Losing to a Master is nothing to be ashamed of, unless you learn nothing from the experience.
Master Suana.

I don't see why not; rapid strike specifically calls out that you make multiple strikes as a single attack, so if you get multiple attacks, you should be able to apply the -2 penalty for the +1 die damage to all of those attacks if you so desire.

You can always rapid strike/shot, even if you're doing multiple attacks; applying the feat is a choice you make for each attack individually.

The only issue is that if you're doing all those attacks, you're already looking at a huge attack penalty, so adding another penalty is gonna hurt. I mean, if you double attack and dual weapon at the same time, even if you have DWM 1, you're still looking at a -10. If you rapid strike as well, that's a -12, which pretty much precludes hitting anything anywhere close to your level.

You can spend more character resources to bring the penalties down, but you're looking at a pretty ugly penalty even with a lot of your feats and talents spent to mitigate them.

As a side note: Notice that Double/Triple Attack allows you use any qualified weapon to make the extra attacks, so if you're General Grievous and you have four lightsabers and Triple Attack (Lightsaber), you can attack three times with one saber, or twice with one and once with another, or once each with three, or whatever.

Sure. You can use Rapid Strike or Improved Rapid Strike on all of the attacks. You can also throw in Power Attack. But by this time, you'll be taking so many penalties you won't be able to hit anything except a much lower-level character. You're only chance of hitting might be by getting a natural 20 or using a Destiny Point auto-critical.

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But most of those penalties can be negated by a prodigious number of multiattack proficiency talents, right? Each multiattack proficiency lowers the penalty you take for multiple attacks with a certain weapon group (like lightsabers for Jedi Knights or pistols or rifles for gunslingers) by 2. There's also the gunslinger talent "Trigger Work" that lets you ignore the -2 penalty from rapid shot. So, if you're high enough level to take a bunch of talents, you could, theoretically, be making 4 attacks every turn with rapid shot and only take -2 to all of them. Not too shabby if you've got a full BAB, a high attack-relevant ability score, a lightsaber you built yourself, etc.

Yes, but you don't get very many talents--even if you're level 20, you only get 10 or 11 max. Which means that even at L20 you have passed over lots of other good talents to get lots of multiattack proficiency talents. Which means your PC or BBEG is going to be a One-Trick Pony. And GM Chris & various forum users have warned many times on here (&, in GMC's case, on O66) that a One-Trick Pony is a bad idea in SWSE.

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Thank you for your replies. Yes, I was thinking about Multiattack Proficiency, of course. What can you tell me abut this talent... do you think it's underpowered? How many times would you pick it up?

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Master Suana.

@ZRissa: While I agree that Multiattack Proficiency isn't going to be much help until higher levels, you probably shouldn't be trying to make 4 attacks in one round until around those levels anyway. The ability to make 4 attacks in one round is pretty insane!

But I'm not sure I agree with your point (and, by proxy, GMC's) about one-trick ponies being bad in SWSE. There was a recent thread on these forums about a Jawa what a Cha score of 3 that everyone seemed to agree was pretty great. Likewise, role-playing a one-trick pony could be really fun when they have to improvise and rely on something other than their one trick. Of course, if your player builds their one-trick pony with the explicit intention of smacking down any problem that comes their way easily and throws tantrums any time their one trick doesn't work, then that's a problem, but it seems to me that a player like that is a problem at your table no matter what character they're playing.

On the other side of the screen, I frequently find that my players are really, really good at dealing with the NPCs I throw at them. Occasionally, they're too good, and sometimes you just want your PCs to fail or at least struggle. One-trick ponies who happen to be in a situation where they can use that trick to great effect can be great in these situations when you want the PCs to face overwhelming odds. But one-trick ponies seem useful in other situations too, such as when you want to force your players to improvise in combat a bit and think about how to take down a foe with something other than a lightsaber. Let's say the one-trick pony BBEG's thing is having really high reflex defense. The PCs may realize that a lot of resources went into this and start using gas, radiation, or some other fort-targeting ability on this BBEG so that they stand a chance of dealing some damage to the BBEG. This could be really fun and cinematic. So I guess my point here is just that one-trick ponies have their place in SWSE just as every other kind of character does, and just like every kind of character, you've got to think a little bit to make sure that the character will be a fun new element to add to your collaborative story-telling experience. I, personally, can't wait until my PCs are high enough level to throw a multiattacking, Grievous-esque villain at them!

@Jeruru: I think multiattack talents can be pretty powerful or underpowered, depending on your build. There are basically 3 situations in which I think people would want to take it:

1. Take it after you've taken Dual Weapon Mastery II so that you don't have to take Dual Weapon Mastery III. This gives you the benefit of that feat a level or two early, and you now can take something other than Dual Weapon Mastery III at a later point, so I think this is a pretty good option.

2. Take it twice if you have double attack to reduce that penalty to -1. This again seems fine: you're spending 2 talents to get to -1 for 2 attacks instead of 2 feats (Dual Weapon Mastery I and II) to get 2 attacks at -2, and you can make those two attacks with a two-handed weapon, which should be dishing out more damage, so this seems perfectly powerful.

3. Take it five times to negate the penalty from triple attacking. This requires the expenditure of a lot of talents, but it could be worth it. I don't really know since I've never built a character like this.

In most other situations, I don't think multiattack proficiency would be particularly worth it; going from -10 to -8 for your triple attack and stopping there probably isn't going to make much of a difference with most of the opponents you'll be fighting at higher levels, for example. So I think multiattack proficiency can be perfectly powerful, but it really depends on your build.

For Double Attack, once. For Triple Attack, twice.

It all depends on how many attacks you are making. The more attacks you make, the more Multiattack Proficiency will be useful.

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Thank you, Masters

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Losing to a Master is nothing to be ashamed of, unless you learn nothing from the experience.
Master Suana.