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The high cost of the Guild Bank and it's expansion, along with various other means of spending Guild money (repairs, respecs, future Capital Ships, etc.) has us once again re-visiting the topic of financing the guild. We need a fair chunk of change just to open up bank tabs, somewhere on the order of 50 million credits for all remaining tabs. Potentially, we would like to be able to offer Guild Members the opportunity to repair their gear and even Respec their characters at no immediate personal cost to themselves while in the field. Unfortunately, these things are going to be immense drains on the Guild Bank's funds, one which it seems best to plan for now, rather than ignore until it becomes a serious problem.

To that end, your Officers and I have had a meeting to discuss potential solutions for ensuring the Guild is financially stable for a long time to come.

These are the initial proposals:

Tithing - once a week?

(See this for the original explanation: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=9510 )

Ask for donations (5,000 credits each)?

The amount is to be determined, but the essential idea is that we simply ask folks to donate a minimum amount in order to finance things as needed. This would be regardless of character level, so quite a burden on low level characters, hardly noticeable to high level characters.

“Guild Bank Donation” loot drop night.

One night a week Ops or Flashpoint groups do their thing and all proceeds go into the guild bank. This includes credits gained and any non-BOP items. Places most of the financial burden on those who want to do these things and may be insufficient in the long run to finance the more expensive stuff or ongoing costs.

Donate to a certain threshold, buy the right to have a 4th toon in the guild.

An entertaining idea that would be fun for a little while. Deserves some consideration. Could also be turned into an auction. Can also be done with high quality guild crafted items, which would allow crafters to contribute more directly to the guilds expenses.

The Weekly Bank Sell Off.

Right now, it's green items that are sold off each week. If this was expanded to include blue items, it may be viable, but not guaranteed. Would require folks to actually put blues in the bank on a regular basis instead of the GTN.

So, what do you think of these ideas and do you have any other suggestions to discuss? Perhaps some combination of the above will work as well.

Please be sure to read the other topics marked IMPORTANT in thsi forum as well.

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I vote for either weekly or monthly Tithing.

Can we get some explanation to the costs of the guild bank? I think that was the idea behind the linked post. We didnt have enough information on costs. Also, a poll on the forum might help.

50 Million seems a bit steep for tabs (pun intended if you got it). Currently we have 300 toons. 50M/300 = 166k each. Not to difficult for the lvl 50 which I would suggest contribute 200k initially. No matter what is decided.

Ugh this is all over the place as SO much keeps entering my head. Let me try to organize. Multiple ways should really be implemented. As a Guild and as a player.

Category 1: Initial Contribution
We could have someone pay in for toons. First character = 10%, second = 15%, Third 20%, Fourth = 40% or set amount, Fifth = set amount, etc. So the more alts the more you pay initially.

You could also require just a flat pay in when you are invited into the guild.

Keep in mind percentages = small amounts for lower level alts. I usually wait until Im around lvl 20 before I ask for an invite (mainly cause Im lazy) but it would be more beneficial for the player if they asked early in this case. More for the guild if they ask later. This gives the player the deciding factor on how much they want to spend on the entry fee.


Category 2: Income/Player's Expense
Eventually there will be a requirement for a consistent income to the guild in general. Not just the bank system.

I think a tithe is the easiest to ask for, but I dont believe it should be required or tracked. Its one thing to remind people every Friday that its time to contribute on the announcement, but another to have an IRS.

I liked the mention of PvP matches being contributed to the bank (from the linked post). We have a WWBB and I wouldn't mind a weekly PvP battle that contributed a percentage to the bank (again giving the player a choice to contribute all of it). Even setting a guide line of "you contribute every 10th round earnings" would be extremely easy.

I also liked the pledge drive option once a year or every six months. We cant make it too often cause then its just annoying. I think it would be based on what we are trying to accomplish. Buying Tabs for instance.

We can also hold the occasional Fleet datacron help for a fee (I dont consider that immoral, just a business).

I feel the systems should have higher levels paying more. We utilize more resources, we make credits faster, and it doesnt hinder the already high cost to leveling.



Long winded I know, but I think its important. Yes the Guild leaders should be asking us as members to contribute, but I also feel its up to us to remember to contribute more or less as we see fit. Good practices and habits.

I like the idea of buying a 4th character slot in the guild. It would have to be pretty expensive but I would think that could bring in quite a bit of revenue for the guild.

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I think people should contribute only what they want to, no requirement, and we live with however many tabs that buys us.

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I dislike the idea of Tithing, as it is annoying for people who are just starting the game to scrape together funds while also saving for their first vehicle, to experiment with crafting, etc.

If these funds are only for buying tabs for the guild bank... why don't we tie access to tabs based upon if you have contributed to the guild bank or not? That of course might not be possible due to limit # of ranks.

I like the idea of selling off green items, I like the idea of buying a 4th character slot (which I know I eventually would). I like the idea of doing events every so often to raise money (crafting auctions, special runs or just general fundraising). As this is a casual guild though... I dislike the notion of people feeling pressured to donate. We should try to aim as much as possible to make people want to donate and feel like they are getting something out of it.

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I am a fan of taxes, so I better not say my opinion.

That said, I just dump credits into the pot everytime I run by the GTN on the fleet, and that's added up to around 100k already. I'm hoping others will keep following this and keep pushing money into the guild bank.

I think a good fundraiser would be a go beat the hell out of a lot of things event, and use all the proceeds to dump money into the guild. I think I'm going to set all my crafters who can do anything that brings back lockboxes to work harder now so that we can raise more credits.

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First Question,

Other than tabs, what else do we need guild credits for?

I support the idea of a PVP or adventure night with proceeds going to the guild banks. I say that with a plural since we always talk about the Order 66 but fail to mention the exiled lords. With all the Legacy stuff in play, I see a surge of the dark side about to happen.

GM Chance

I think donating is a good start. I like the idea of PVP / world boss nights and donating that loot to the bank. paying a set price to add a 4th alt is a nice idea but we probably wont make much money.

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I think a combination of approaches might be the best way to go about all of this. Tithing is probably the way to go until BioWare incorporates some sort of an income percentage tax (if they ever do). It's the least hassle for everyone. However, in order to alleviate some of the strain on lower level characters, why not incorporate some sort of tiered tithe? Characters level 1-10 can have a pass and aren't required to pay anything, but they can if they want. Level 11-20 characters pay one flat rate, 21-30 pays a little more (this increment should be small since this is the stage when new abilities start costing a lot of money, but income from missions/kills doesn't scale to meet the demand), 31-40 pays more, 41-49 a higher amount, and finally 50s another.

In lieu of money, guildies who are into crafting can act as quartermasters by depositing Prototype and Artifact-level equipment into the guild bank. These items can be removed by guildies as needed, but if they remain in the bank too long, the items can be auctioned off for credits.

There's nothing that says we have to fund the guild in any one way; we can incorporate several methods to get the job done.

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In case you guys didn't know, only the Guildmaster has access to the bank's money logs. So, keep in mind with your suggestions the amount of bookkeeping involved. Fiddleback's not going to haunt every character that doesn't tithe, so it's going to be mostly on an honor system.

Just saying 10% of your weekly holdings is a lot easier than doing a tiered system. If you can't afford it on your level 10, it's on your honor that your level 50 pays a bit more. If not, there's not much we can do (nor do we want to), but it's just going to take us longer to get more tabs for the guild bank.

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Low level characters are effectively on non-drain on the system, and a non-contributor.

Very few leveling characters have too much cash laying around, but their repair bills aren't 20k either.

I say no contribution required up to level 30 on any character.

I don't like percentage based tithing on the general principle. It is based on a data point, not a series. I could say, buy a white crystal (if they still were in the game) for 2.5 million credits, and leave myself with 100, pay 15% or 15 credits, and meet my tithe.

And another fair point is if someone doesn't group outside the guild (like I don't) then everything they spend that isn't frivolous (28 speeders, really? wow, I am impressed) is actually enhancing the guild as well.

I wish the game supported straight 1% of all income as it was earned, I would approve of that, just because it is so minute on low level characters it won't be noticed.

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Dragonmann

Hey gang,

Based on paper work and the casual nature of our guild, I am in favor of voluntary donation program. You give what you can when you can. If everyone knows what we are trying to buy, that will encourage people to do so. And if people don't, we make do with less. (Basically what WillH said.)

That said I also think that we should have some other fund raising events. I like selling Guild character slots. I would vote we return to 2 slots per member and the 3rd slot requires X donations. (Existing 3 slot folks would have time to get there.) Then we can also sell the 4th slot and potentially more. I think this would help bring in money quickly, and also charges you based partly on how many characters the guild is serving.

I am less inclined to link donations to a rank, but I do think that it could be considered as a factor for promotion. Much like real politics, spending can get you places. (Ok, no more politics, sorry.) Again, not thrilled on this idea, but a possibility. And I would make it one of several criteria of which you must have a minimum amount. So do lots of other helpful things and you can still be promoted even if you never donated to the guild.

I will be handling weekly bank sales. I could see that start expanding to blue and potentially higher if no one wants certain things. I would also use the GTN to get the best prices. I really hope this helps.

I like the idea of fund raising events. Operations, flash points, ect. I would be willing to play Hide and Seek for credits too. Everyone hides. If your found, you have to pay X to the guild bank. Or Tag or Duel competition in the guild, etc. Any of these could have entry fees or Penalties.

I also like the idea of commissioning crafting work to guildies or better, non-guildies. Offer in the trade channel to craft something for a fee. Sounds like it could raise some capital.

Overall, I suggest we avoid any mandatory requirements. However, if we have some deadbeats who owe me a lot of money we can send them a suggestion and demote them within the fleet if need be. But no mandatory taxes (at least not until the game offers that as an option.)

Thanks,
Duncan

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Question: What happens if someone doesn't log in for a while?

I have an alt in the Exiled Lords. Say she tithes 10% of her 200,000 credits this week. Then, I spend a few weeks focusing on my main, and I either don't log in my alt or only use her for crafting (which doesn't earn me money, at least for now). Do I still have to log in each week while my character is idle and tithe another 10%? Because if I'm idle for a month, you've taken over 30% of my funds, not 10%.


I'm not a fan of requiring a tithe. I'd rather see fundraising nights where credits earned during the questing go to the guild, and 'bennies' for those who spontaneously contribute. For example, Brian and Phil can do shoutouts on the podcast for those who donate to the guild. If you have an enthusiastic player base, you'll get plenty of credits just from voluntary contributions. If you don't have an enthusiastic player base, a mandatory tithing structure isn't going to help retain players.