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I have a player who has decided to play a wizard in the Crypt of the Everflame module. However, he has a fundamental problem with how the class is built and it is one that I don't totally understand myself.

The wizard does not get many spells per day especially at first level. He only gets 3 first level spells and 3 cantrips. The problem comes for him and for me when preparing spells, why is there a cap on the cantrips you can prepare? Also, why does he have to select which 1st level spells he prepares? This seems limiting to me, especially when your players don't know which ones could be vital to the adventure. So here is the house rule I am considering, not limit the prepared cantrips and not bother with limiting how many spells he can prepare, but the casting cap would still be there. This would make the wizard able to roll with the punches better. Is this broken?

Also, let's say that there are no house rules for what I have proposed. What differentiates the Wizard from the Sorcerer? What makes him not severely underpowered compared to the Sorcerer?

Actually what you are suggesting is probably one of the most-used house rules that I have seen. I use it myself. The sorcerer is still differentiated with bloodline special abilities and by the extra number of spells per day they can cast. The balance between the sorcerer and the wizard is the increased number of spells per day for the sorcerer vs the quicker spell progression of the wizard.

We also house rule the cleric and all other spell-casters this way as well. In my current party I have 2 druids and a sorcerer. I don't think if the tradeoff was that big anyone would play a sorcerer instead of the wizard.

Anyone else have experience with this in their game?

You might want to have a look at the rules for alchemist extracts.

An alchemist can prepare any extract he knows with 1 minute of preparation.

I don't see why you couldn't simply do this for wizard spells.

your still limited to only preparing 3 1st level spells but you don't have to prepare them all at the start of the day and they only take 1 minute to memorise once you've decided to comit them to memory.

it makes them a bit more flexible without giving them the spontaneous casting of a sorcerer since 1 minute prep take it out of being useful in combat.

although you could make some REALLY interesting combats if the group has to protect the wizard for 10 rounds while he prepares a spell they desperately need to escape.

I agree with the one poster that said this is the most common house rule out there, but I think it breaks the system. Within the game there are two types of casters (with regards to this subject) those that must prepare spells, and those that just know them. They both come with trade offs.

If you need to prepare spells you usually have a much larger variety to pick from. This makes you more useful in many different situations. The down side, you do not always have your full library of spell available to you. It takes more thought and planning to play these casters correctly, but when done right they can be very effective.

The second are those that just know their spells. They often can cast more spells a day and always have their library available to them. The down side, they have very limited selection. They make great casters for specific roles and situations, but are not nearly as versatile. They also tend to lag slightly behind in spell levels (wizard gets x level spells before the sorcerer).

I have always thought that they did a great job of balancing the pros and cons to the two types. This common house rule disrupts and breaks those balances (imo).

So back to the house rule (and it is your game so you need to do what you think is best, these are just my thoughts on it). The problem I see with this house rule is why would anyone ever want to play a caster that has to prepare spells (in terms of casting, I understand there are other class features). Why play a sorcerer and have access to x spells he can cast at will, when a wizard can cast 5x spells? All the wizard needs to do to "learn" new spells is to transcribe them into a book. The sorcerer needs to level and/or use talents to get new spells. The wizard will also be slinging fireballs around before the sorcerer since he gets access to the higher level spells quicker. With this house rule the sorcerer loses a lot of his pros while keeping his cons where the wizard is gaining pros and losing his most of his cons.

From a personal experience, a game I play in has this house rule is in effect, but has been extended to clerics and druids too. They can cast at will from the entire selection of spells available to them. The end effect is that you have "divine sorcerers" able to cast a spell to cover almost any situation. This ends up bumping the party's power level quite a bit, removing a lot of the danger and excitement of adventuring (has diminished my interest in the campaign).

The wizard comes with a big selection of spells. They come with scribe scroll. They are a great prep class. They can make scrolls to always have some of their spells on hand. The last poster made a really good point about the wizard, and one I think most players do not use. They can also leave slots open, to prepare later in the day. When I play a wizard I always keep a few of these slots open in order to be ready for that unexpected situation. This does not help in a combat situation, but come across a clue written in some obscure language. Take out that spell book and study comprehend languages for 15 minutes. Using this type of tactic, wizards are great at overcoming those unexpected obstacle.

My suggestion would be to maybe have your player look at the sorcerer instead of the wizard. They have done a great job of adding preparation and at will casting classes to the game. The sorcerer vs wizard, cleric vs oracle, etc. If a player really dislikes preparing spells I would suggest looking at the at will equivalent.

Sorry for the long rant. These are just my thoughts on it. You need to do what you think is best for your campaign and players. I would also love to hear other opinions on this since it is such a common concern.

Another excellent point, and one I really did struggle with in my own game. The biggest reason I think I use the house rule is it is a holdover from 2nd edition d&d. We house ruled out memorization in the mid 90's and I was still a 2E holdout until Pathfinder came out. My players were so used to spontaneous casters that spell prep seemed foreign to them.

On another note though the Sorcerer and Oracle still do get more spells per day then the cleric/druid or wizard and my players have played Sorcerers more then Wizards. I think it is the equivalent to having a soldier with a full auto machine gun and one that has a M-16 and a few grenades. In general the machine gun is going to do more casualties then the M-16 and more often; however, the M-16 soldier just has his 20 round magazine so he has to be more conservative. Those grenades aren't as useful all the time, but they sure are lifesavers when you really need them.

Not sure if this is as big a distinction to make the sorcerer compete but it definitively has been enough to make my players still take them.

I would NEVER house rule spell preparation in 3.xx or Pathfinder. It works fine as the rules are written.

I would further add that the most important addition to the Wizards class in Pathfinder is the one matter you TOTALLY glossed over: the Bonded Item. Typically an amulet, the bonded item grants an additional spell per day of any level that the Wizard knows, without having to prepare it.

So the Wizard gets one - count em – ONE spontaneous cast per day. It is an awesomely powerful ability, so powerful that it is the most powerful special ability in the game. And you want to give him MORE of this ability? WTF?

Because the Wizard can know so many spells, the bonded item is the most powerful special ability in the game. More powerful even than Smite Evil, in my opinion, as it gives a wizard the STOPPER, once per game day, from among HUNDREDS of spells he knows. Clever Wizard players will amass as many spells as possible, because their bonded item ability means that their “special ability” is, literally, as powerful as the number of spells the wizard knows. Unlike all of the spontaneous caster classes, there is no limit to the number of spells the Wizad can learn. That means that the bonded item ability becomes more powerful as the game progresses.

So that's the trade off. Spontaneous casting and fewer spells known -- or prepared spells limited only by the actual number of spells your wizard character has accumulated in game. You must CHOOSE.

If your player whines about having to prep spells, than tell him to play a Sorceror. If they whine about how few spells the Sorceror knows, then tell them to play a fighter and shut the fuck up!

The Wizard is already the most powerful class in the game. The more spells the Wizard knows and the higher the Wizard’s level is, the more the Wizard just drowns out every other player at the table. There has to be some semblance of balance to this. Without it, the game just breaks into a zillion pieces.

The limited spells known to the Wizard at first level is quickly overcome by the player. Spells borrowed for the purpose of inscribing and the incription in the book itself only costs 25 gold for a first level spell. Learning ALL of the first level spells quicky is well within the financial ability of a low level character.

And it just scales from there. Nobody who plays a 5th level Wizard says the class is weak or limited. Limitless casting of 3 prepared cantrips per day is still pretty cool.

If he is playing an Evoker, adding Alchemical Ice from the Adventurer's Armory as a focus together with Precise Shot and Point Blank shot to Ray of Frost should give him a 1d3+3 attack every round at first level. That's when firing into melee within 30 feet of the target with a range touch. AND he can crit for triple damage too. That's not bad at all and is a competitive damage output per round with most of the 3/4 BAB classes.

By the time 3rd level comes along, that changes dramatically when Scorching Ray and Pyrotechnics comes into the fray. By fifth level, its Haste and Fireball. Who's complaining then? Not the Wizard player, that's for sure

Suck it up.

_________________
.Robert

Thanks guys, I will now have some ammunition to defend the game with.

I basically agree with steel_wind for the most part here, though the cleric is significantly more powerful than the wizard and I can prove it every time.

However, yes, the wizard preparation is a key part of the class and it SHOULD NOT be changed.

The only house rule I've experimented with is expanding the powers of the Amulet of Magecraft style of Item. It's one of my favorite release valves for this and I think it is where the future of prepared spellcasting should be. It reduces the inherent amount of bookkeeping, and allows the wizard to engage his inherent flexibility while not letting him have too many spells per day (in the case of the ring of wizardry).

Well Steel I really like your podcast, but I gotta say that I might think twice about playing in your game. Not because of not allowing this house-rules; I don't mind at all having spell memorization a part of the wizard and actually enjoy it (planning ahead tactically), but because you'd tell your players to shut the fuck up. My players are my friends and telling them to shut up and play a fighter if they don't like it is a pretty condescending and disrespecting thing to do to your friends. If someone suggests a house-rule to you (or anything else) at my table we discuss it. We see if there is a way to fit it in and if there isn't (or it doesn't fit the flavor of my game) I tell them exactly why. I have rarely had any of my players get whiny because they couldn't do something they wanted, but always happy I heard them out.

As you can see I'm not really a RAW (rules as written) GM. Some tables are, and I really enjoy gaming with those people. Some are not and I like that too. The only tables I avoid are those that breed hate and discontent because a player (or GM) is a jerk.

My players have actually never taken the bonded item before, so that one has never come up, but I can definitely see how it would lessen the impact of the bonded item if used. House rules serve a specific function,; to add flavor to your specific setting. In my campaign, spells are very hard to come by and find. As are magic items and other magic stuff. I suppose that's another reason my players tend to sometimes favor sorcerers. Also in the past I may have gotten a reputation for players having gear stolen/lost/destroyed etc. As a result they tend not to rely on loot or items.

Anyway, my point is that this rule can work just fine (and does) but as Steel Wind pointed out it can get out of hand if your campaign doesn't reflect the house rule used in the context of your setting (for instance low magic setting).

Steel Wind: Sorry if I ruffled some feathers there, and may be I took your comment out of context. I'm really not a flamer and this is YOUR house. My only point it to any GM (and player for that matter). Your fellow gamers are just as intelligent as you are, and think their ideas are important (and they are). I don't have players, I have friends that happen to be players. Treating them with disrespect and running roughshod over them will ensure that not only will they no longer be your players, but your friends. My friends are a part of my game and are partners in developing the game.

I can't wait for your guys next episode! Thanks for putting it out there. I have used a ton of your content (Including your updated Beholder and a NPC based off of Big Grim). You guys have been an invaluable part of the Pathfinder Community. When I get new players I suggest to them they listen to a few episodes of your podcast (and Know Direction) to get ideas for their own characters.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

If you're severely limiting the amount of spells a wizard can learn, that is actually akin to taking the wizard's weapons away. I realize you probably know this but that's a major thing that can grind the wizard class into dust. A wizard is only as good as his spellbook and the people playing the wizard are really just trying to be the "In case of emergency" glass box.

If you're letting more spontaneity into your wizard casting I would suggest taking the amulet of magecraft as a slightly more powerful but still balanced method of spell preparation. Effectively, wizard prepares spell slots with a school, rather than a specific spell. They can then spontaneously choose which spell of that school they're casting in combat. It makes the wizard think ahead, but gives a greater amount of flexibility when GMs don't hand out a large amount of foreshadowing. It also allows a wizard to do the thing that makes sorcerers ridiculously powerful: Roll spells up level slots.

Also, Steel_wind has always struck me as the kind of player who plays with people who tell each other to STFU all the time. No one gets butthurt about it in kingmaker for more than a minute. Then again I wouldn't call our kingmaker group the words Calm or Levelheaded.

First, I want to say, it's your table, so see if it works for you.

That being said, I don't think it's a good idea. There already is an arcane spontaneous caster, the sorcerer.

When I first played D&D, in the early '80s, wizards cast 1 spell per day at first level, then cowered in the middle of the party for the rest of the day. When third edition came out, I saw the sorcerer class and thought, 'I can cast any spell I know, neat.' I played one once, then went back to wizards.

Why? I found that I spent more time on my turn in combat deciding what to cast, and before you say 'you should be thinking about that between you turns,' believe me I was. With a wizard, I spent this time once, at the beginning of the game day, then had a pared down list to look at during combat. At high level even with a wizard's 'limited' spell selection, it can get difficult to pick the right spell in combat. It also becomes a tactical challenge to find uses for your last couple of spells. I once used, in a third edition game, either Shadow Evocation or it's Greater form to cast a shadow fireball at a red dragon, imagine it's surprise when it took damage, but I digress.

In my opinion, the ability to scribe scrolls is the balance point at low level. It costs 12.5 gp and 2 hours to scribe a scroll of a 1st level spell, plus the cost of any material component. This is a minor investment of resources for the character. The GM can have this happen in the inevitable downtime that occurs between adventures. Also, unused ones can be saved for later use, unlike spell slots.

In a third edition game, I was playing a cleric/wizard. The DM gave us a month of downtime in a city, my character spent it scribing scrolls and brewing potions of low level spells.

It really is a balancing act. A sorcerer has tactical flexibility with a limited selection of spells, while a wizard is tactically limited with a flexible selection of spells.

That's just my 2 gp, hopefully my personal experiences will be helpful.

_________________
There is a saying: yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present." - Master Oogway

Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours. - Richard Bach

There is a "spell" called crossbow it can be "cast" unlimited times a day and takes a move action to "prep" its the best "spell" a level one wizard knows.

Sorry I couldn't help myself but yeah 35 gp or grab a free sling it's early levels the player isn't an archmage he's a dude (or lady) in a bath robe and can't yet bend creation to his will prep 3 spells and keep that crossbow/sling handy until you really need a spell, you have three a day don't waste them. otherwise you are a sorc on steroids. now if you are running a game where finding new spells will be hard he should be informed of this and given the option of playing a sorc.


also you could let him retroactively make some scrolls to help scrolls are an important part of playing a competent wiz.

I didn't see a mention of the specialty wizard powers. Example the Evoker gets the Force Missle at least 3 times a day, plus your INT mod. That right there gives you magic missile a bunch more. No roll to hit, just a hit 1d4+1 due to his Intense Spells.

Change this up and make him a Conjuration expert and get a ranged touch Acid Dart, doing 1d6+2 at least three times a day, plus your Ray of Ice, plus your spells. So not only are you throwing Ice at the big nasty, but your Summoning critter is at him and on and on it goes. Oh, he is immune to cold, well forget that have some Acid mother.

These specialty powers are too often forgotten and changed the wizard immensely. They scale up and are always good, but just not you know...FIREBALL.

I say if he or she is running out of spells, well they are just not reading the book at all. Perhaps if your playing a wizard its best to make like a wizard and crack a book.

there is also something to be said for the concept that classes don't need to be perfectly balanced with each other every level. Your a group not a bunch of soloists, if the ole wiz is a little weak level 1, well then he gets carried by the barbarian who is shinning at level one.

I've done the wizard from 1st to 17th level and I think being "weaker" at low level made his power increase all the more noticeable at mid and higher levels. It's a fun shift going from just surviving combat to being the one who dictates how it plays out.

I agree in principle that classes need not be inherently balanced. I think the wizard is far less powerful than most people think - and the only time the wizard is overpowered is when the wizard is actively scanning the DM's notes on the campaign so his spells are magically perfect for the scenario.

I have found that I like a trio of house rules with regard to prepared spellcasting, and these tend to completely solve the prepared spellcasting problem at my tables:

1) Prepared spellcasters prepare spell slots as a school of magic. They can spontaneously cast any spell they know of the school they've chosen for that slot when they use that slot. This means spontaneously throwing down metamagic feats as well (this fixes metamagic pretty well too, since metamagic is basically always bad otherwise outside of quicken spell/empower spell/widen spell.) This retains the wizard/cleric/druid ability to completely retool half their character sheets every day, but removes the problem where you get into a situation where the wizard has no fun actions to take on any particular round. Any of the magic schools should have a relevant spell to any situation. It forces the wizard to think, but gives them enough flexibility to be at least relevant to most parts of a combat. A note about the "crossbow solution": Shooting a crossbow is not fun as a wizard, and it's not why you play the wizard. It's a piss-poor option and the prevalence of it as a "solution" indicates terrible design flaws at the mechanical level.

I should note that I have tested this extensively - it does not greatly increase the wizard's power level. In reality you're preparing spells like normal, but you have an "Oh shit" valve that you can pull if you need to. Most of the time you're spontaneously casting 2nd level effects out of a 4th level slot because you really NEED that 2nd level transmutation but the lowest level transmutation spell you prepared was in a 4th level slot.

2) Spontaneous spellcasting of metamagic'd spells takes no additional time. This maintains the ability of prepared spellcasters to use quick metamagic. This also gives the spontaneous casters something for having prepared magic encroach on their territory a bit.

3) This is the important one - Anything that would increase an attack roll increases a your spell DCs by the same amount. Anything that would penalize an attack roll decreases your spell DCs by the same amount. It is extremely easy to get saving throws TOO HIGH in this game for any character to ever be able to land spells. It's not even hard. 90% of the penalties you can apply to an opponent's saving throws require them to ACTUALLY FAIL A SAVE FIRST. This is a chicken and egg problem when fighting things of higher CR than you. This allows characters to functionally buff their DCs in an effort to have some way of taking down a creature that the DM failed to math properly on. Most DMs cannot do system math correctly. (And no, fox's cunning doesn't count. The system math assumes and has always assumed you will get a permanent item that does the same thing and doesn't stack since 3.5.)


These three changes are actually systemically good changes that I've tested extensively. I've never felt any additional stress as a GM to challenge the party under these house rules, and my mages have actually felt like I believe a mage should feel. Magic is scary enough that it's not ignored. (Protip: ignore your arcane spellcaster and your fighter sometime, and just kill everyone else. You will likely TPK your party.)