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So I thought to start a thread about building characters for the Ultimate Dungeon Delve.

I’ll be at Gen Con and one thing I will be doing in the Ultimate Dungeon Delve. I’ve been watching the Origins coverage which has included the UDD. From reading about player’s experience with it there and it has got me thinking about building specifically with the UDD as the focus and how to best maximize the chances to make it through.

To start off the discussion a bit, a few things that I have considered already.

Before learning more about it my first thoughts were going with a Wizard. But it seems opinions are that damage potential is much more important and a controller is not really optimal for a UDD group. A group primarily of strikers with a defender and leader may be a better choice, is there any agreement or disagreement with this assessment?

I saw that a group did well to have some alchemical silver, and that made me think that packing a variety of alchemical items would be good to deal with a variety of situations. They tend to be cheap so having a nice selection would be pretty easy.

I got a recommendation on Twitter to use a Vicious weapon and Iron Armbands of Power for a melee based character for that extra damage potential. I was also thinking focus on items with properties probably good to focus on that will apply to all encounters.

Because this is six encounters no extended rest, would feats such as Durable to give some extra healing surges be a good choice? Or is there better things to spend the feats on?

I was thinking about making several different characters so I would have some choice depending on what the group needed. In looking over different classes I was thinking about the Barbarian and Warden and I was thinking that both have a lot tied up in their dailies and if they would be a good choice or not because again this is six encounters and if they each can only “power up” for two of those would it be better to go with other classes, or do these classes measure up fine without their dailies?

So I open the floor, anyone have pointers or opinions on building characters for this kind of event?

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Knowledge is power, power corrupts, and absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

First off, I am curious as to what level these characters are going to be made at. Kind of sounds maybe in the 5th-6th level range, but i'm not sure.


I think a controller would work well in any group. If not a Wizard (because they have multiple daily and utility powers each level), I woud go with an Invoker. The Invokers are pretty cool and also deal pretty decent damage. Being able to apply status effects is always good, and that seems to kind of be the specialty of controllers.


I don’t really have much experience with alchemical items, but tossing in some whetstones, other potions, and maybe some reagents would be good. Although I know quite a few alchemical items are attacks, so that would always be good.


Both of these would be great for a melee character focused mostly on damage. Items with properties are what I normally look for because I like the fact that I have a constant benefit. I know it would sound like a bit much, but for any melee character, I would go with the iron armbands of power, they are just too good.


I think for any character Durable is a good feat. Once again, depending on the level, I would also suggest Weapon/Implement Expertise.


I think that both would be good in this kind of group. Barbarians just deal a lot of damage, and Wardens can dish out their fair share, and I think with at least 2 daily powers each one will be fine. I think having a leader in the mix will be really good too. I really like the Shaman, but if you are able, you should look into the Artificer, it is very cool too. If looking for another striker, I found that the Sorcerer is quite good at dealing out some decent damage, and if looking for another defender, take a look at the Swordmage.

Well those are the recommendations i’ve got. If you want, you can post or PM me the details for the characters (i.e. level, # of magic items and up to what level, how many characters, and so on), and i’ll try to come up with a few builds for you, it’s pretty easy with the character builder.

The event description specifies to bring 6th level characters. I can do the building, as that is the fun But I was wondering about considerations for building with this kind of event in mind rather then a normal roleplaying campaign. Also things like feats and items and such that deserve a close look.

In case anyone wants to know more, here are the details from WotC:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/news/20090612

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Knowledge is power, power corrupts, and absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

For party makeup, I would recommend taking two leaders...you'll need the extra healing capability and renewable bonuses for the rest of the group. You'll need either two defenders or one defender plus another role that has some defender-like abilities (Barbarians with Defender-level HP, characters with Defender-level defenses, etc). A striker isn't essential, but if you don't have one you'll need a character of another role that can dish out high damage (2H weapon fighter, etc). You'll definately want a controller, or at a minimum another class that has controller-like capabilities. Personally, I'd suggest an Artificer, a Bard (Valor), a Warden, a Swordmage (Shielding), a Sorcerer (with Blazing Starfall), and either an Invoker or a Wizard (Orb Specialization). The group is a bit weak on heavy single-target damage, but good builds for the defenders can offset this weakness.

If I was playing the Ultimate Dungeon Delve, I'd be tempted to play a 6th level version of my Elven Cleric of Tempus, balanced between Strength and Wisdom. Righteous Brand to aid the melee characters, Sacred Flame for free saves and temp HP, Healing Strike for an extra healing power, Divine Glow for some AoE damage and bonuses to hit, Shield of Faith for an encounter-long boost against foes heavy on AC attacks, Bastion of Health for an extra encounter heal, and the combo of Beacon of Hope and Consecrated Ground for when things really go bad. And, of course, Righteous Rage of Tempus for when you really need to hit something hard. Equipment would include a +2 vicious fullblade, +2 scale armor, +1 cloak of distortion, and a +1 holy symbol.

Healing surges are going to be an issue with six encounters. You don't necessarily need Durable for every character (it takes a valuable feat slot), but you will want to maximize the effectiveness of the surges you do have. I would highly recommend an artificer as they can draw on everyone's healing surges so you don't have one character with several surges left and another character with none. I'd also strongly consider Dwarven Armor for everyone in heavy armor so they get a 'bonus' surge once/day. Whenever possible, pick 'surgeless' healing powers over powers that require a surge to heal. Any renewable source of healing or temp HP is golden, particularly the Valor Bard. Aside from the Artificer, I would take either a valor Bard or a Cleric with Sacred Flame.

For your utility powers, focus on encounter powers more than daily powers, or at least pick daily powers that have effects that persist for an entire encounter. For example, I'd pick Bastion of Health over any of the daily utility powers for a cleric at level 6, as BoH offers a significant benefit for every encounter. Same with Shield for a Wizard's level 2 utility.

When it comes time to pick your level 1 and level 5 daily, you should pick powers that give a long-term effect rather than something that is a one-shot high damage power. For example, Clerics should choose Beacon of Hope (surgeless healing, weakening, and +5 to all other clerical healing in the encounter is huge) and Consecrated Ground (free healing when you're bloodied as long as you can sustain the effect).

Picking encounter powers will be the trickiest part of the build. You only get two per character (not including racial powers), so you want to have as many status effects as possible to minimize incoming damage. You also want as much damage as possible so you have less rounds of taking damage. If the character has the option, they should take one single-target power with high damage and/or a status effect, and one AoE power with a status effect.

Finally, with six characters, you will have to ration your use of dailies. With six characters, I would recommend that no more than two daily powers and one magic item power be used among the group per encounter, unless things are going VERY badly. Designate one daily for each character that is the ace in the hole, such as Consecrated Ground for clerics, or Sleep for the Wizard. Hold that ace back as long as you can.

Ok, lots of good stuff to digest there. Just a clarification, its only 5 characters who are each 6th level.

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Knowledge is power, power corrupts, and absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.

Good catch. I suppose the second defender or second leader could be dropped...or even the controller.

Anyway, here's my first build for a Ultimate Dungeon Delve character:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
UDD Bard, level 6
Half-Elf, Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Background: Arcane Student Who Saw Too Much

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 20.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 17.


AC: 23 Fort: 18 Reflex: 17 Will: 20
HP: 60 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 15

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +8, Bluff +13, Diplomacy +15, Acrobatics +8, Intimidate +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +7, Heal +3, History +4, Insight +5, Nature +3, Perception +3, Religion +4, Stealth +4, Streetwise +9, Thievery +4, Athletics +3

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Improved Majestic Word
Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 4: Focused Expertise (Longsword)
Level 6: Toughness

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard at-will 1: War Song Strike
Dilettante: Blazing Starfall
Bard encounter 1: Shout of Triumph
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Moment of Escape
Bard encounter 3: Song of the New Dawn
Bard daily 5: Satire of Bravery
Bard utility 6: Song of Conquest

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Sacrificial Longsword +2, Finemail of Resistance +2, Healer's Brooch +1, Light Shield, Battle Standard of Healing (heroic tier)
RITUALS
Glib Limerick, Simbul's Conversion

Even though I' most likely not going to get a chance to play the UDD. I thought, just for fun, I'd whip up a character and see what everyone else thought.



====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Havrakhad, level 6
Kalashtar, Paladin
Build: Protecting Paladin
Background: Crusading Zealot

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 16.


AC: 25 Fort: 18 Reflex: 18 Will: 20
HP: 59 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +8, Intimidate +16, Heal +11, Insight +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics -1, Arcana +3, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +1, History +3, Nature +6, Perception +6, Stealth -1, Streetwise +7, Thievery -1, Athletics

FEATS
Level 1: Quori Shield
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 4: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 6: Novice Power

POWERS
Paladin at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
Paladin at-will 1: Bolstering Strike
Paladin encounter 1: Fearsome Smite (retrained to Angelic Alacrity at Novice Power)
Paladin daily 1: On Pain of Death
Paladin utility 2: Sacred Circle
Paladin encounter 3: Righteous Smite
Paladin daily 5: Hallowed Circle
Paladin utility 6: Wrath of the Gods

ITEMS
Savage Rimefire Plate Armor +2, Heavy Shield, Vengeful Bastard sword +1, Amulet of Protection +2, Javelin (4), Magic Holy Symbol +1, Acrobat Boots (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

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-- Courage Without Conviction is Apathy at Best--

Well, I do see a few issues. The two stats you raise at 4th should both be odd (Wisdom is, Charisma isn't) so you don't waste points. I'd recommend Str 13, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 19 to start, with Wis 16 and Cha 20 at 6th level. Str and Dex could go lower if you don't need them for feat prerequisites. You could instead drop your starting Cha to 17 (18 at 6th level) and use the extra points to raise your Str and open up the Str-based Paladin powers. Bolstering Strike could easily be dropped (3 temp HP is helpful, but won't make the difference in a tough battle, especially if your group has a Valorous Bard). If you do add the Str option, I'd take Valiant Strike - the attack bonus will be useful, .

The bigger issue is that a paladin isn't a good choice for the delve unless you're taking in multiple defenders. You have 5 characters, and assuming you take one of each role the 5th character should be a defender or a leader. Without a multi-marking ability, the paladin simply can't function as the sole defender in this kind of environment.

I'm attempting Lunar Awakening in a few weeks in Memphis. We're going Cleric, Fighter, Avenger|Ranger, Archer Ranger, Bard.

Remember you only get two consumables, so if you buy alchemical silver, you can only buy one more potion, there's no buying "lot's of alchemical items"

Played the UDD at GenCon. And was not impressed. Not at all. Maybe I'm the wrong type of gamer for those sorts of things, but it felt like it was written by an asshat DM that loved flaunting his power over the poor pathetic players. Our group only got to the 3rd encounter. Unless you had an extraordinary string of luck, you were set up to fail. And sorry, but that's not why I play RPGs. GM Chris had a great rant about issues with RPGA mentality, and after this I do indeed find myself agreeing with more than a few of those sentiments.

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"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never been on acid."
- Eddie Izzard

Contributing Author of the GSA
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