d20radio.com

no not even close to a tank . basically to tank you need Ion Cell , no ifs or buts. and to do DPS you really need to be rockin with Plasma or High Energy.

I've been looking for ways to increase Ion Cell dmg and no love so far , probably not possible by design

As to the "problem" of having to many tanks ... dude, just listen to yourselves, you've gone insane! If every, I mean EVER, there was a problem for a guild to have, it is "to many tanks". This is perhaps the greatest call to go out, PUG with some people, find great DPS and recruit them to join the guild.

Also, it's way early. Let's not sit around in our 30+% shielded ivory towers of having made 50 within a month of the start of the game, and assume the guild actually has a problem. Breath. Wait. The DPS are coming. They ALWAYS are.

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I'm sure it's due to my lack of large-scale raiding experience, but I'm left more than a little confused by this statement. It reads to me like, "It's not a cat, it's a cat."

What exactly differentiates an "Official" raid group from what you and others are trying to organize?

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Jedi Master Tir-Jin Meteos, The Order of 66
PC GAMER - T.J. Hafer

It's not so much my concern that we won't have DPS. It's more my concern that we have more people who want to tank Operations than we will have groups available for. I can name five off the top of my head, myself included. I suppose that's not such a scary number when I put it down in writing, but it still requires us to have at least three 8-man teams running to make it workable.

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Jedi Master Tir-Jin Meteos, The Order of 66
PC GAMER - T.J. Hafer

Heh not saying anyone has but anyone who might mistake this thread for discussing the beginning of forcing people to adpot certain skill sets in the guild simply isn't going to happen.

Anything read should be taken in the context of simply outlining the reality of the mechanics we have to work with, how you want to play is always up to you.

If a particular ops cannot be completed without a very specific 2 tank 4 dps 2 healer setup then that's reality and nothing to do with the guild.

If the guild has 40% tanks then I guess the DPS and healer will be able to run the ops more often and tanks will need to take turns

in the long term it means that tanks will be more inclined to get a second DPS or healer character to 50.

First not everyone who reaches max level will want to dedicate themselves to an Ops group. In WoW, alot of people did Heroics, far fewer did raids. That said, let's assume for the moment that everyone who plays will reach max level, and that they will all want to run Ops.

Our current guild population is 239 characters, if all of those wanted to participate in just 1 Ops group which met 1 night per week we would have (approximately):

30 8-man Ops Groups
That's over 4 per day. Every day.

This isn't a guild with just 30 or so members, we're very large, and need to remember that at pretty much all times.

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I suppose I should just calm down. I'll admit, a part of me started to panic when I saw the second advertisement for an Ops group go up with the main tank spot filled. It felt a little to me like everyone shouting "Shotgun!" and I was getting left in the back seat. Not to mention the fact that I know Caylen and Darth GM are also interested in end-game tanking.

But there's no use worrying about it before we really see how the numbers pan out over time.

That being said, I totally call Shotgun on MT for the third ops group, if there is one.

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Jedi Master Tir-Jin Meteos, The Order of 66
PC GAMER - T.J. Hafer

The most important quality in a group leader, from quest groups to Ops groups, is the willingness to organize and be the leader. You want to tank that third Ops group? Then lead it man, organize it.

Tanks lead, from the front (with the gracious support of our amazing healers. ).

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Short version: An "official" ops group would be "The Order of 66 Ops Group". The ops team that DM Tim and I are putting together is "A" ops group - hopefully one of many that meet at times which are good for those involved, but not controlled by the officers.

Long version: I've been in guilds with a guild raid team, and one with the individual raid teams and from a personnel standpoint, the individual teams created much less division within the guild and headache for the officers.

With the Official Team determining who got to go on any given week was a pain. Was it first to sign up? Was it by role? Were officers automatically placed in? It slowed progression and made people see favoritism from the officers because it was based on their schedule and they made the final call as to the week's makeup even if none was meant. When the guild finally created a second team to run raids they set who was on each team so people could plan around their nights. However, the first team was filled with better-geared players who could quickly move on to new content as the officers were tired of always leading new folks through the earlier stuff. The new team had all those new folks. And quickly it became hierarchical and you would hope to get "promoted" to the better team when a spot opened up. When a new expansion hit and you geared up for those raids it mattered which team you were assigned. The guild had learned the "A Team" was the "good" team and the "B Team" were the "scrubs." And we certainly couldn't have a third team because the officers didn't have time to wrangle people for it.

On non-official teams, the leader of that team does the wrangling in terms of times, loot policies, and who is on the team. The officers are not involved in any way (unless they are part of that team). This means that an officer doesn't have to make sure a rotation of players is followed, that the night(s) planned are acceptable to the group as a whole, that the loot is distributed "fairly" (another raiding can of worms) or any of a myriad other concerns. These can all be dealt with by the raid lead or co-lead who only has to organize 8-10 folks rather than 200-ish. It also allows the raid leader to have some leeway in who is and isn't on the team that on an official team would smack of "the officers all hate me." (Two folks from a former guild fall into this category - the "Will Not Shut Up on Vent" guy and the "I Don't Care What the Strat is" guy). It allows progression by having a consistent group of people who learn how each other will approach situations and at the same time avoids the pitfalls of making people feel excluded from a guild activity if they are not on the team.

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GM: "I've never seen a person do 54 points of magic missle damage in one round before."
Me: (smile)

And this is why you don't sleep on the couch.

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GM: "I've never seen a person do 54 points of magic missle damage in one round before."
Me: (smile)

Your ops group is indeed yours to run independently... we are not going to force the guild members on it.

Its PART of the equation... the problem is we have an excess of Tanks... Ops groups that form will help(by taking some from the pool) but in the its one of my jobs to help everyone participate at the level they want.

We have more than 150 players... most are going to want to do Ops at some point. We need to help them achieve that.

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Captain Zeece / Sgt. Perrian
Order of Sixty Six Webmaster
Guildmaster for The Exiled Lords




Co-host of Geekhead Radio
look me up on Twitter, Google + or Facebook - Clayton Havens

Hey gang,

Call me a noob, but what is the problem with haveing a lot of tanks in an ops group? I would assume that would slow the group down as they would all be pretty hardy and not able to kill enemies as fast as DPS would, but still, they are not going to be going down as easily. It would be more attrition style game I would expect. Still I would think a bunch of tanks could carry the day.

So far I like tanking, but I am also working on my healers too. I guess I will consider a DPS build in the near future.

Thanks,
Duncan

(Not at 50 by a long shot!)

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Gold 109 (ret.)
Leader of the Anti-Gungan Defamation League
SWTOR: Server Bergeren Colony
Hobbie - Jedi; Hesrat - Trooper; Deridre - Scoundrel
Vice Admiral Dallas of the 66th Fleet, STO
Captain Hetsh, Leader of the Gorn Resistance, STO
Got Gorn?

This does seem logical, unfortunately those crafty game designers have gotten ahead of us on this. Most bosses in either FPs or Ops will/do have "Enrage Timers", basically from the start of the fight you have a certain amount of time before they must be downed, or they get super deadly and wipe the group.

This is why group makeup is so key in an Ops group, you need to bring only just enough Heals and Tanks, but not to much since you need to get them down before their enrage timer kicks in, which is all about well specced DPS doing their job well.

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While a laudable sentiment, I am willing to bet most 66ers, and certaintly most SWTOR players never see an opp.

The vast majority of MMORPG players play basically solo, occasionally working on a group quest in an ad hoc basis when forced to by zone and quest design.

TOR's solo focussed progression & especially its companion system makes the time and hassle of finding groups for Flashpoints a losing proposition to players who would rather find something more exciting to do than stand around the fleet spamming general chat.

Hard modes are just that - Hard

They demand skills that most players never honed in the leveling process, and your groupmates have a right to expect you display them.

If not, you're the noob who's making us wipe.

They demand you know boss stratagies you can only learn by trial & error (or by watching spoiler vids posted on youtube, and letting someone else put in the time & effort)

If not, you're the noob who's making us wipe.

Even with skills & knowledge gained, you'll need the practice & gear only born of repition.

If not, you're the noob who's making us wipe.

Frustration will kill off most.
Boredom with repeating content each day for gear will take most of the remaining.

Maybe they'll PVP. Maybe they'll roll an alt, and see a whole new story. Maybe they'll go on to the next hot game.

Now, take 16 people bull headed enough to muscle through that, and convince them to all give up an evening together, and that they should listen to you as you adapt tactics & take the 8th take on the first boss of the Opp.

Congradulations, you've got a aid team.

All that said, I've been a raider in other MMORPGs for about 10 years, and I love it.
Once 50, I fully intend to join a raid team if I can, and lead one if I must.

I considder it a priveledge to work with other players, and love helping other new 50s through the transformation from solo to group play.

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DM Jackson
Radio Free Hommlet

A Blizzard dev once wrote that all the thousands of man-hours and moneez spent developing new raid content resulted in a product that only a small percentage of players (<10%) ever saw, and even fewer (<2%) enjoyed regularly.

MMO developers have learned that the vast majority of players don't raid. Blizzard are taking steps in their development to get more players enjoying raid content (it's hard to justify such expense for so little enjoyment), but SWTOR isn't there yet.

Extend that reality to our guild and I don't see a cause for concern.

The Oo66 isn't a raiding guild and I doubt most of our players are here to raid. Raiding is likely, for most, something interesting, but not the driving force to play.

I don't see anything yet that makes me believe there's a tank problem.

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