d20radio.com

I am truly sorry. Was my criticism not constructive enough? Perhaps I should have sent a PM itemizing things I think were done less than perfectly rather than put it in an open forum? Maybe saying thing 1 and thing 2 were better in the Dr Seuss book would have come across better.

The only people I called out specifically, although not by name were Fiddleback (whose wuote I paraphrased because I couldn't find it) and Zapi, the OP.

Fiddleback, I apologize to you if the reference was taken beyond its context. Trying to run a democracy is great, but sometimes you need to have a dictatorship. May you always no when to step up to the plate.

Zapi, um, cant say apologize too much. You started the thread with vitriol, you got some back.

Now other than that, everything in my post is my opinion, and mine alone. Do I think the "spoilergate" decision was wrong? Yes! I think it is wronger than the holiday special. And the way the decision was handed down has resulted in me talking less in guild chat, and by less I mean almost nil. I explained myself over in that thread as to why.

On the other tentacle, I respect the ruling that was handed down as well, and have not violated it. Have not railed against it. I don't have time to lobby, protest, or even complain. My life goes on.

Some of the other stuff is perceptual, and I know it. I live in EST, and have an 8 am status meeting with my boss 5 days a week. Do I think scheduling could be better, yeah. Does it matter to me if it is PST CST or ZeSTy? not so much, just not convenient for me.

So now, come on in off the ledge. No more "if you don't change I am gonna take my ball somewhere else" and no more "but it was constructive criticism" and lets face it.

We are too big to be a small guild, and too small to be a big guild. And like the middle child, we need to collectively grow up and stop being jealous of the big kids and stop telling the little ones what to do.

_________________


Gamer, Geek, Enginseer, Battle Mechanik, Inquisitor, Warcaster, and Evil Overlord
Dragonmann

I think one of the problems is the definition of what constitutes "doing well". I think personally I'm doing spectacularly well. Bear in mind I'm "doing well" from an Alt-a-holic + PvE Perspective. (meaning 6x characters ranging from 21-29, 3x each Empire and Republic)

Whenever I get around to PvP (if ever, maybe not) I fully expect to not be "specced" or "twinked" and to perform merely adequately. (and to wipe on occassion while learning the ropes of what works). That philosophy serves equally well on Operations, on Flashpoints, and in PvE Missions/Dailies. Part of the appeal of TOR is the LACK of Grinding required, even for Operations, Flashpoints, and Endgame. Form a group, relatively equitable, and give it a go. Will you be Perfect? No. But will it be Fun? Certainly. At least, MY kind of fun. The appeal of our Guild lies in the diversity. That should NOT mean that we migrate fully into isolated cliques. Our podcast (serving all play styles) goes a long way towards alleviating this, but the ability of all to come together and work together sharing from each of our strengths is more important. PvE'ers share their discoveries of the worlds. PvPers share battle tactics. RP-ers contribute to the story and the hijinks that can ensue.

I do NOT personally want to be part of the Powerleveling wrath, or the Speed-Ops crews and will happily PuG with whoever in Guild or Sister Guild is on, or with the PvE world in general. Sometimes it serves as a recruitment tool for other unaffiliated players, sometimes it is to serve as a good example of a friendly and helpful player, willing to both learn and to share.

Endgame content will come to me when it comes. As an altaholic, I'm ripple-leveling. I hit a benchmark (every 5-10 levels), then move to another class or other faction. Within that class or faction, I'm totally happy working with whoever happens to be around. And I don't mind repeating content as the "learning curve" is (relatively) fresh from the previous pass thru.

I Friend as much as I can, to keep cross-guild contact, but the decided lack of participation in Vent makes it harder to share Community. (and yes, Co-Op with Vent is FAAAAAARRRR easier to accomplish than Global, Guild OR Party Chat.) I would like to see more people using the Vent servers to coordinate and socialize, and taking the time to use the "comment" function to declare their Character and/or Guild.

For Example, all my Oo66ers are just named:
Hammer-smith
Jaxx-Duss'Ti
Johkerr
While my off-guild or faction alts are identified:
Reavertam (EL)
H'avaarr (EL)
Nixxa-nebari (EL)
and
Kraekienne (n/a)
Daavid'lo-pan (n/a)

I'll run with Guildies, with Allies, with Solos, and with PuGs. I share recipies or mission discoveries, as well as mats when and where I can. I offer crafted goods when I can and where it can help, but the Endgamers can't see that because all my crafters are barely breaking the midrange and really can only offer a leg up to the other Alts players or the new arrivals not rabidly chasing their 50 at the expense of much of the story and the community.

That too is fine. Take point all day long. I'll have your back when I get there, just don't offer scorn or treat others like me like albatrosses or anchors around your necks. Everyone can contribute in their own ways, and everyone should appreciate that. Fun First is an excellent mantra to remember for all.

'nuff said.

_________________
FULONGAMER aka Johannes M. Bowers
http://thelostholocronpodcast.info/
It's not My planet Monkey-boy! / I Waste Him With My Bowcaster!
THIS is my LIGHT-Stick!, The next one of you Furry Tree-Hugger Yub-Yub Primitives EVEN TOUCHES me...//FZOOOK!//

No, I'm sorry. But I'm being honest with you, I don't find that particular line of criticism constructive (he said, in a calm and reasonable tone of voice). I find it angry, accusatory, and the premise doesn't even really lead to your conclusion.

For one, Zapi has made it clear that he did not create this thread as a threat to take his ball and leave. He started it to try to affect positive change, as vitriolic as the opening post might have sounded. And I will admit, I agree with you that it did sound vitriolic.

For another, I don't understand the point of saying "No more calling it constructive criticism." Dude, it was. Do you think I'm lying to get people to forgive me for being a douche to them? No. If it came off as douchey, I'm sorry. But the intent was constructive criticism, and I'm not going to call it anything else.

_________________
Jedi Master Tir-Jin Meteos, The Order of 66
PC GAMER - T.J. Hafer

Sorry - I was just trying to have an open dialogue. No offense intended.

_________________
Listen to me play on the Real Gamers podcast
http://realgamerspodcast.blogspot.com/

Looking at things from the outside (as the leader of a much-smaller guild), I think people are selling the Order of 66 short, especially this early into its lifespan. While several reasons have been mentioned, one that hasn't been discussed in detail is that the game really isn't very old. The game has barely been out for two months. Endgame play is still in the hands of a select group of hardcore players...even the guild leader isn't at 50 yet.

As for a lack of chatter, that also has a lot to do with the age of the game. People are still experiencing content they've never seen before, which can distract a person from the other things that were mentioned (socializing in chat, immersive RP events, etc). Give people time to get past the new shiny, and you'll see more interest in events and socializing.

Why did certain events lose interest? Because they hit the limit of what people are ready to do. Sure, taking down the Coruscant world boss is something people want to accomplish...once (or once per character). Then you go to Taris, and some characters aren't high enough level. Move to Nar Shaddaa (particularly the level 30+ area where the boss resides), and you exclude more people. The higher-level required for the event, the less that will be willing and able to participate. Same thing goes for the datacron hunt, and even the RP events. This Friday's event will take place at Alderaan, which is great...but that excludes characters below level 25, if for no other reason than a lack of speeder access.

Character backgrounds not being fleshed out? Some people would rather play the character to 50 before they take hours writing up a detailed character background, especially since the game story shapes their own story. My primary has a passable background on the guild website, as does my secondary...but I have four different characters that I switch between, and I probably won't flesh them out on the wiki until they're higher level.

Several complaints from SWTOR start with the comment, "[insert MMO here] does this better..." Well, communities take time to build, and if you're basing your opinion of a guild based on two months of operation when competitors have had years to build vibrant guilds and online communities, you're going to be disappointed. I know I'm here for the long haul, and I'm willing to give the Order of 66 and The Exiled Lords time to develop and grow.

I could talk further about the other issues that have been brought up, but I think I'll finish with a comment about time zones. Even though the Order of 66 is for the entire Gamer Nation community (and beyond), the server is based on the West Coast. You have to pick a time zone to work around, because the main window for most gamers isn't larger than five or six hours, even on a Friday night. People with standard day jobs generally won't log in before 6 or 7 pm local time, and staying up past midnight is problematic if you have other responsibilities (such as kids).

I personally wouldn't plan on starting an event before 7 pm, and since I assume that my situation is fairly typical among my guildmates, I don't schedule events before 10 pm EST / 7 pm PST. That gives the West Coast players time to finish dinner and take care of obligations before logging on, while the East Coast players still have a few hours to participate without being a basket case the following morning. If you still believe that doesn't give the East Coast players enough time, then not only do you need a different guild, you need to go to a different server. The harsh reality is that even if we are all connected by the internet, our geographic location has an effect on when we can play. I am heartened by the fact that people as far away as Australia can work around this problem...but if your particular situation doesn't allow it, there's no shame in looking elsewhere, or splitting your time between servers.

+1

_________________

Co-host of Geekhead Radio
Follow me on Twitter @GeekheadAaron
Look me up on Google+ -Aaron Burton

It wasn't douchey. Or at least I didn't take it as such, and I don't mind people knowing that I was one of the people whom you were addressing.

If helping people to improve their gameplay and, as a result, their fun, dosen't fall under the purview of something the guild can help each other with, than I'm really confused as to what the point is.

As for the rest, I'll admit my interest in playing Gaven has waned significantly of late. I want to do higher end content -- I don't think I've done any Flashpoints past Malestorm Prison -- but beyond that, when I log in, it's to finish the minimum amount of content I've decided is necessary to work towards my goals as quickly as possible.

I am having more fun with the two alts I recently started, as their stories are fresh and new.

More guild events would be fun, though I'm not faulting anyone for not devoting their time to entertaining me.

My one attempt at RP thus far was a lot of fun, though in hindsite I may have bullied a handful of folks into debating the politics of a fictional galaxy with me. Which wasn't my intention going in -- it rarely is when I bully people into debating real world politics, either -- though I enjoyed it quite a bit, the conversation was obviously not to everyone's taste.

I don't know if I'm going anywhere with any of this....

One thing I have noticed is a lot less activity in the guild chat, which is unfortunate. And it can't just be that people are worried about giving away spoilers. Sure, not everything is shiny and new anymore, but there's still things to talk about.

_________________
Kyle Reads Alpha Flight - A distinctly Canadian look at comics' premiere team of Canadian superheroes. Also: swearing and dick jokes.

I enjoyed it as well. Tir-Jin, being my most serious character, can't really hold that much of a conversation on anything not involving politics or philosophy anyway (which does cause him to come across as a stick in the mud on a regular basis. )

_________________
Jedi Master Tir-Jin Meteos, The Order of 66
PC GAMER - T.J. Hafer

Total Sidenote, but lets debate Star Wars Politics sometime .

_________________
Order of Sixtysix Officer - The Old Republic - Master of Life
Casual Play and Quality of Life
Have Your say about Your Guild - PM me with Feedback/Concerns or in game as Markess

The biggest complaint I have concerning voice chat is related to missing the in-game dialogue.

That and I sound like a girl...

This.

There's been some awesome conversation going on in Vent about game theory and storyline and crafting, but if I want to hear what's going on with my character's story, I need to mute Vent. And then I forget it's muted and wonder why it's so quiet...

That could be a large contributor as to why Vent is infrequently populated.

It's like that time when you were trying to watch a movie in a theatre, and your buddies are talking next to you. You like them, they're your buddies, but you dump your bucket of popcorn over their heads and beat on the bucket with your souveneer refillable soft drink cup screaming in a stage whisper "For the love of *CENSORED*, shut the hell up!"

...or am I the only one who's done that...?

And Zapi, as far as the whole "alt-o-holics thing goes, that's life man. That's playstyle. I've got characters and story I only play when one other specific person is on, and there's other classes I want to try. I know others are the same. If that's our playstyle, that's what it is, man. I'm in the guild because the Gamer Nation community is here, not because I want to spend $15/month running Raid content every night. That's why I quit WoW.

I'm not saying your playstyle is wrong either. It's cool that you have your playstyle, and I know it's sahred by many. I'm saying that people need to figure out why they're in this guild, and why they joined. I know there's a middle ground where folks looking for specific content can be happy, and run with like-minded people within the Gamer Nation.

We just need to find it.

You're my buddies, and I promise I'll beat you up with popcorn and soft drinks if you ever annoy me while I'm trying to watch a movie.

_________________
Current Co-Host of All Wings Report In, the Official Podcast of the Rebel Legion SW costuming club
Order 66 Contributor: Fragments From the Rim - BLOG UPDATED EVERY THURSDAY

In reply to the might of Darth GM and his cup of beating and popcorm bucket of compliance.

I agree and I think it is an unfortunate reality of a game so driven by full voiced actors. I tend to avoid Vent for that reason and will usally end up having to mute people in the middle of conversations. What is more unfortunate (and I am in this group) is that even when people are in Vent, they don't speak. Its an odd dicotomy to what Vent has been in previous games.

That being said, when conversation occur they are great. Last night a discussion about PVP, beer and an embarrassing incident at one participant's in-law's wedding were the topic of the night. I think we need to be slightly more willing to have conversations in the general chat channel. I will enforce this with mesh tape and a sonic screwdriver. Ok, not really, but I want to invite others to jump in.

On another note, I think we should have the "BBC channel" so not to offend people unintentionally with language. Just my 2 credits.

_________________

Co-host of Geekhead Radio
Follow me on Twitter @GeekheadAaron
Look me up on Google+ -Aaron Burton

I always have subtitles turned on. So, while people chatting in Vent while I'm in a cutscene can detract from the experience, it isn't a deal-breaker for me. Plus, sometime the subtitles reveal a word I might have otherwise missed due to other background noise or the character's accent.

On the running operations side of the issue I'd drop LeftoversRaiding.org as an option. We're a multi-guild cross-faction raiding group that uses a shared calendar and points system to help get people and guilds find and manage Operations groups. You can see my post in the Raids, Quests, Groups forum for more details(once the moderators approve the post).

The big thing about Leftovers is that you stay with your guild, grouping up with the people you know, and fill out the rest of your roster with "leftovers" from other guilds. If your schedule doesn't let you attend the regular 66 events you can sign up for some of the other groups' events, filling out their rosters. The shared points system and calendar make moving between groups pretty easy.

I'm from a small locals guild, with rarely more than 5-6 people on at any given time, but we use LeftoversRaiding.org to run operations anyway. We've met a lot of great people, some of which have become regulars in our events, and we'd love to get to know some of you folks as well.

Lot
LeftoversRaiding.org SWTOR Lead

I know that this discussion has been on here awhile, and that the last post was in Feb., but I wanted to layout my thoughts on this thread.

I am a casual player, and as I said in my application, this is my first MMO. I have thoroughly enjoyed playing this game and trying out different classes and storylines. I have noticed that many people, pre-level 50, tend to spend their time trying to level up and quest through the storyline. Where as the majority of people that want to group and do quests WWBT and other things tend to be the level 50s. I have felt a little intimidated sometimes when I log on and its me and 20 level 50s.

No don't get me wrong, if ever I needed a question answered or help in a quest, there is always someone to help out, but it does seem that a lot of emphasis is put on end game. And while I'm excited to get there, I also don't want to feel useless or underpowered when we do group quests. Now that we have more level 50s, I don't think this is a big problem anymore. But it may still be a relevant towards under 50s, but you's have to ask them individually.

That is my only thought towards this, that most grouping tends to be level 50s and couple of us in the 40s, that some us feel underpowered in these tasks and think our time is probably better spent questing. And this is no fault of those at 50, but some of us at lower levels do tend to get "left behind".

I have always been taught that you end everything in a positive note:

I have enjoyed playing, questing, WWBT, and datacron hunting with all of you and can't wait to see those restarted...maybe divided by level ranges. I appreciate everything everyone has done to help make this a wonderful experience for me!

_________________