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Okay as in all things, the best laid plans don't survive contact with the enemy etc etc

So we were going to have pregens, and an AIAT/a and now we have a fun little mess. Okay the players decided that they would like to build their own characters ( there was a few new players who wanted to experience everything about rpging ). They when given the option decided to roll for abilities roll 4 drop the lowest ( because that's how we used to roll and why change ), and I gifted them an extra feat ( because hey why not, everything is going crazy anyway ). They have backgrounds and limited destinies yet to be determined. And they for some reason chose a retrofitted yv-666.

So now that everyone knows we're playing a bit of fast and loose here, I figured I'd post up some character summaries and the basics of each build. They haven't chosen equipment yet so that won't be included.

( it sounds as though I'm harrumphing and such but that is not true in the least, I just forgot how odd things go and how careful planning doesn't really help as much as one would expect)

Any equipment ideas, critiques, advice or suggestion would be simply splendiferous.

And here we go

Also anything with a * means the player hasn't finalized his decision yet and these are the options so yeah help with these would be awesome.

Haxim the 2nd

Haxim is an exiled noble groomed to be a ruler, he however has a few character flaws undesirable within a ruler namely a lack of tact, incessant talking, and the fact that he draws bad luck like some type of lightning rod for awfull. He is a saber rattling, blustery ne'er do well now using his wit and charms to get him by as he makes plans and lays the bedrock for a power base to take his family down. .  .  .  .

The player wants to be just good at being slick focusing on being intimidating and telling people what to do but also a good fencer.

Haxim the 2nd

Falleen male

Noble4/ Scoundrel1

Disgraced background

Abilities= str7, dex12, con12, int14, wis10, cha18

Defenses= ref13, fort14, will18

Talents= noble fencing talent, rant, revolutionary rhetoric

Feats= linguist, weapon proficiency ( simple, pistols, advanced ), expert briber, force of        personality, friends in low places, silver tongue, point blank shot

Trained skills= deception, gather info, initiative, persuasion, pilot, knowledge ( buerecracy, galactic lore, tactics)



Allume Kallinati

Allume is a bothan from a yuzhan Vong ravaged world he grew up in an undercity, hiding from shaped creatures and criminals alike, he was raised ( in the loosest sense of the word by a Vong refuge hiding amidst the same ruins as the young Allume. This Vong tought Allume the use and usefulness of biotech. through out his life he learned a few lessons adaptability is key, and bigger is always better. He's grown to become a skilled thief with a specialty in ships, always with an eye to acquire and sell the best and biggest.  He's quiet yet skooth and tends to stay towards the shadows , but never shying from a bit of the olde ultra violence.

The player's concept has gone through several iterations and now has come to this which has the character wanting to be good at stealing, what we're calling ship-jacking, biotech, and stealth. Just being a shifty guy good at tech of all kind with a kind of raccoon complex.



Allume

Bothan male

Marooned background

Scoundrel 3/ Scout 2

Abilities= str10, dex17, con10, int16, wis9, cha15
 
Defenses= ref20, fort16, will15

Talents= improved stealth, bug bite, surprising weapons

Feats= weapon proficiency ( pistol, simple ), shake it off, point blank shot, returning bug, rapid shot, biotech specialist, skill focus mechanics, skill focus pilot/tech specialist*

Trained skills= deception, mechanics, perception, pilot, persuasion, stealth, use computer

Urdo Fenn

Was a herglic house slave and bodyguard whose master was exiled And he along with his family were eliminated along with their former masters privilege an bank accounts  he was bought due to his str and endurance,  bought by slavers he was used to scout targets for capture, an accident happened and killed his masters and a load I slaves, during this accident he discovered his force potential saving himself and attempting unsuccessfully to save some of the others. He now under the name Urdo Fenn works as a bounty hunter and body guard. He specializes in boarding actions and getting where he shouldn't be via his massive breaching saw.

This character wants to be amazingly tough a heavily armored hard to take down walking brick wall with a smidgen of healer a la the force. He basically took my original idea and pre gen and twisted till just before it broke.

Urdo Fenn

Herglic male

Enslaved background

Soldier3/Scout1/Jedi1

Abilities= str22, dex12, con14, int12, wis14, cha13

Defenses=ref17, fort19, will18

Talents= armored defense, improved armored defense*/indomitable*/tough as nails*, evasion, dr10*/attune armor*

Feats= armor prof ( light, medium, heavy ), weapon prof (simple, pistol, rifle, vibro-saw), shake it off, force sensitivity, force training, power attack/ mighty swing/ improved dmg threshold*

Force powers= vital transfer x2, Crucitorn/force shield*

Trained skills= use the force, endurance, climb, perception

* his choices he hasn't come to a decision yet

Liakohgwiewarr "Ohgwie"

Ohgwie is a wookiee swoop biker and bounty hunter, he is one of the rare few wookiee's raised off of kashyyk and thus has little ties to his home world. He's was all about his gang until they were all killed, no vengeance, money, and adrenalin serve to fill the void. He acts as a thug and enforcer with a bend toward blowing stuff up. In the past he's been known to run escort for gun runners or as a saboteur. He's sullen and extremely loyal and though he's a brute he is in no way dumb.

This player quite literally wanted opie from sons of anarchy a big dude good in a brawl okay in a firefight, rides a bike, blows stuff up, isn't afraid to make hard terrible choices.

this build is a bit wonkie and could go like 3 or 4 different ways.  The character wants to be good at riding a swoop,  blowing stuff up, and punching people I think he should do normal melee with a hammer or something since he's spread pretty thin and martial arts is pretty intensive to make it work 

 Ohgwie

Wookie male

Imprisoned background

Scout3/ Soldier2 or Scout5*

Abilities= str18, dex14, con14, int16, wis9, cha 8

Defenses= ref 21/19* fort 19/18* will 14

Talents= hammer blow*/melee smash*/ambush specialist*/tough as nails */indomitable*, hot wire*, jury-rigger, trip line*/mechanized rider*

Feats= martial arts 1*, martial arts 2*, dreadful rage, gear head, armor prof ( light), weapon prof ( simple, pistols, rifles, advanced melee*), point blank shot*, shake it off, momentum strike*, artillery strike*, angled throw*,power attack*, mighty swing*
 
Trained skills= initiative, mechanics, 
use computer, endurance, pilot, ride, jump, knowledge (tech)


Ree-2-kee ( teslanic "tesla ")

Ree-2-kee is a shard force user, he is not an iron knight his views being far more grey than black and white, he is a curious soul who seeks to eventually free himself and hopefully all shard from the cage that is a droid frame, and to gather and unite the free roaming shard. To this end he has dedicated everything he does to mastering the force and meditation on the applications of the force to his silicon body. He is odd and argumentative, and
Tries to hide as a normal maintenance droid but his lack of technical skill and dexterity combined with his utter lack of guile often end in calamity.

The player is a Flying tentacled astromech style trash can droid
Who is just an out and out force wizard focusing on telekinetics.


Ree-2-kee

Shard 

Conspiracy background

Jedi 5

Abilities= str9, dex8, con12, int12, wis19, cha17

Defenses= ref15, fort17, will30

Talents= telekinetic savant, telekinetic prodigy, force focus
 
Feats= force trainingx2, force boon, force sensitivity, unstoppable force, skill focus (use the force), weapon prof (simple, lightsabers)

Trained skills= use the force, perception, knowledge ( physical sciences)

Force powers= vital transfer, dark transfer, force shield, negate energy, force lightning, force disarm, cloak, phase, intercept, kinetic combat, move object x2

Lastly is my younger brother who not only like the rest is indecisive but has made 2 characters and can't decide between them yay

Presently he's leaning towards the 2nd character 

First

Endo Sullas

Endo is a miraluken Luke sene seeker and former Jedi, he fancies himself a bit of a iajatsu master. He is presently undercover as a bounty hunter while tracking down his way word bretheren

The player wanted to be great with the force and a pretty zen type of character. Old school samurai style though. Inner peace 1 draw, 1 kill basically took Cyril's build he did for me and adapted dropping the lightning draw in exchange for spring loaded weapons for basically the same effect allowing for an additional attack feat, and my bonus feat was force training I allow lightsaber forms even though he'll be using an alchemical warsword. The force perception, informer, force track set up basically let's him use use the force for everything.

Endo Sullas

Miralukan male

Scarred background

Jedi1/soldier4

Abilities= str16, dex10, con12, int13, wis 16, cha14

Defenses= ref16, fort18, will19

Talents= force perception, quick seeing, devastating attack

Feats= force sensitivity, weapon prof ( pistols, simple, light sabers), force training x2,  skill focus ( use the force), informer, mighty swing*/ overwhelming attack*, quick draw, weapon focus ( simple weapons)

Trained skills= initiative, use the force, jump

Force powers= shatter point, battle strike, far seeing, force track, makashi riposte, fluid riposte

2nd

Devroh Tonks

Devroh Tonks is a bloodthirsty ubese  mercenary  who as a young man his tribe was wiped out to a man leaving him exile and pariah on his world so he chose to take to the stars and not look back. It's been profitable and his lack of morals and ruthless nature have served him well

He started out wanting to make a ranged heavy support guy, an ended up building a highly mobile jet pack support gunner. He just wants to spray bolts and fly all over the place basically

Devroh Tonks

Ubese male

Crippled background

Soldier 4/ Scoundrel 1

Abilities= str12, dex19, con14, int14, wis 14, cha10

Defenses= ref21, fort19, will18

Talents= jet pack training, strike and run, armored defense

Feats= armor prof( light, med), weapon prof ( simple, pistols, rifles), charging fire, rifle master, point blank shot, weapon focus( rifles), strafe, running attack*/mandalorian  training*

Trained skills=pilot, perception, initiative, acrobatics

Alright that's it.

Any ideas or critiques would be amazing guys.

P.S. sorry for lack of detail and format this is all from my phone so no awesome excel sheets just the planner on the index site.

He might want to take Scavenger from Force Unleashed (along with the "build object" use of the mechanics skill, from the same book) to really go with the "raccoon" thing. He'd probably have to put off one of those feats until later to do that, but I think it'd really fit well with the marooned/tech/raccoon thing.

I would bring up one issue that maybe he didn't notice. The "rapid shot" feat requires you to use two throwing weapons (bugs) if you want to use it, which can be problematic since you'll have a very limited supply of them.


I have issues with the vibrosaw's light licensing requirement, and in general I'm not a fan of that weapon, but that's personal issues.


Martial Arts I is a great feat to have for a big wookie type, and opens up the excellent Wrruushi feat. That said, yeah, he's going way too many directions with this.

First thing: Don't bother with Jury Rigger and Tripline. The latter is a talent for focused engineer types who aren't so great at direct combat. Anyway, Allume already has the mechanics angle covered, so spending resources that direction beyond simple training isn't really worthwhile. I imagine he was trying for the concept of dropping traps behind as he zips along on a speeder -- well, cute, but really, he should focus more, and he has huge strength. I'm guessing Jury Rigger was mainly as a prereq for that. It isn't worth much if it's not acting as a prereq to other talents, and again, that's Mechanic territory that's not a great direction for him to go when you already have a skill focus + tech spec in the group.

I love the Mechanized Rider talent for this guy. That really sells the "biker gang" concept. Make sure you give him plenty of opportunity to use his bike. Since he's clearly a melee focused fighter, I'd suggest rolling with that and keeping to an unarmed bike. Armed vehicles tend to be regulated anyway. Though I'd probably give it a hidden nonlethal weapon -- the snaregun pops to mind as a fun and flavorful thing to have in a concealed mount*.

I'd say go with the scout/soldier multiclass, and take martial arts 1, but not the rest. Mighty Swing is possibly useful; he has to spend an action controlling his vehicle or come to a complete stop, so there's some iffiness there, and Power Attack is not at its best if you're not using two hands on the weapon (he needs one hand on the controls, since you can't do Guide With Knees on a bike). I'd actually suggest taking Running Attack and Mobility, which will let him use the bike's high speed to his advantage in melee.

Skip the throwing feats entirely, I think, but if he does want one grenade-booster feat, don't take Artillery Strike -- take Mighty Throw (FUCG), which lets him add STR to his thrown weapon attack rolls and range incriment. (Note: ATTACK BONUS. These are hard to get.) A guaranteed hit is a much better deal than a couple extra squares of area when he's taking an attack penalty from range.

I'm not seeing Hotwire, hammerblow, and ambush as being good for this character.

So here's my suggestion: Focus on mobile mounted melee with weapons, and have a few options for when that isn't appropriate. Maybe eventually dip into scoundrel to get Skirmisher.

Scout 3, Soldier 2

Talents: mechanized rider, evasion (per SotG, this applies to vehicles), melee smash (next level take Soldier again and get Stunning Strike)

Feats: weapon prof(pistol, rifle, advanced melee), shake it off, momentum strike, martial arts I, armor prof(light), running attack (next level, take rapid strike)

For equipment, have a bowcaster for ranged use -- since you have rifle proficiency, you might as well have one. For close work, I'd suggest a force pike (or static pike if you'd rather have range on your side). You might allow him to reflavor the force pike to do bludgeoning and energy, and say it's an energy-charged chain, which fits into the whole biker aspect. Using Running Attack, he'll be able to almost always get the benefit from Momentum Strike, and since he won't have to stop adjacent to the enemy, he'll have a lot less trouble from the fact that this group is HEAVILY melee-oriented. When driving away he'll draw AOOs unless he has a reach weapon, but Mech Rider will help with that, as he can take cover from his mount as a reaction to the attack.


* Okay, for the bike: human-sized vehicles are a little awkward in SWSE and require some freedom on the GM's part. The vehicle modification rules are designed for starships, and often don't apply properly to something as small as a speeder bike. In S&V they clarify that anything smaller than Huge still has a x1 cost multiplier.

Remember that vehicles have one emplacement point by default and it's almost impossible for a bike to get more unless you yank out an existing gun or something. You can always cram a system in without the EPs for it, but you risk losing the system if your bike gets hit hard enough (and the GM is totally within rights to say no to a LOT of these things). Also remember that vehicle weapons don't use the pilot's DEX, just his BAB. They use the ship's INT instead.

For bike upgrades, by the way:
I'd allow a man-portable weapon added with the Docking Gun modification to count as a pilot-controlled weapon. Like I said before, I like the idea of putting a snare gun in using this.

But after that it gets a bit awkward. Speeders normally mount only normal "human sized" guns with buffed out die counts --3d10, 4d10, 5d10, but no multipliers. The x2 weapons are referred to as "starship-class weapons" and only rare speeder vehicles are mounted with those. So I think it'd be difficult to justify adding any of those to a speeder bike. But the rules don't really tell us what it costs to put a blaster cannon in a bike. 3d10, sure, is just a mounted heavy rifle. But the bikes from ROTJ have 4d10 guns, and some of the speeders in the various books have 5d10 blasters... what do THOSE cost?

Mounting a heavy rifle would run you 3000 credits (2000 for the gun, 1000 for the mount), and it comes with an autofire mode. A starship blaster cannon runs between 2400 and 5000 if you want autofire, and those have a x2 multiplier. So I guess to be reasonable I'd just go ahead and say you can get any of the x2 weapon systems in the book, but they lose their x2 multiplier when you put them on a speeder.

Some other examples...
Atmospheric Thrusters: It doesn't give you a fly speed if you don't already have one, but I'd allow you to do this to boost your bike's speed by 10%, rounded down (which means 1 square, basically). If you go with the whole x0.5 cost factor, then that'd run you 1000 credits and two EP, which isn't a bad deal. You'll probably end up with a fragile system for having not enough EPs, but that's kind of appropriate to the concept, I think.

Maneuvering Jets: +2 to the ship's dex is effectively +1 reflex, so that's good.

Other than that, the systems listed under Movement are generally inappropriate. No sublight drives on non-starship vehicles. I might allow a SLAM at a reduced cost (10,000 or so) since that's a really high cost for a +1 or +2 speed bonus in character scale (+1 or 2 speed in starship is a much bigger deal, when speeds range from 3 to 6; a character scale swoop starts at around 10). Also you have to call it a Pre-Regulation Destroyer Class Solid Fueled Recoil Booster.

Accessories:
For cargo upgrades (smuggling space or cargo pods) I'd say no, but allow you to use the S&V equivalents instead.
The only other things I see that's appropriate would be Passenger Seating, which gives you a second seat on the bike (just make it 1 passenger, regardless of the multiplier) or a sensor upgrade.

One special note: I'd allow a recall slave circuit on a bike with no preinstalled slave circuits. 6000 is exorbitant enough for what is basically a horse that comes when you call.

For the items in S&V, Com Jammers would be fine, and Personalized Controls are a given, but not much else there would work. Definitely not hardpoints.

Alrighty so we played a quick intro session last night after checking over everyone's sheets and making sure they understood everything they  could do.

Here's some notes on how the charactes played and how the builds worked.

Allume= the player did not have a good night with numerous terrible rolls and a general feeling that he was missing out in combat. He chose to use his pistol instead of the bugs and furthermore was basically playing as though he was a thief from 3rd ed.

So we had to have a talk about changes we could make to the character, and how he could think outside o the box, either assisting roll or suppressing enemies, and using his skill to manipulate the environment. Like lights, doors, fire suppression equipment etc. 

And the scavenger feat is a must and we may do a little re arranging to fit it in thanks for the catch I had missed that.

Also a quick question does the returning bug feat effect rapid shot or does he have to actually have 2 in his hands?

Haxim the 2nd= this character played amazingly better than I had suspected shutting down whole turns for my npc's and overall just being a hassle. 1 moment of note he attempted to jump onto a table and rolled a 1 turning a dramatic moment of saber rattling into a slightly hilarious moment.

On a side note he acquired via some gambling and haggling a busted up battle droid that he intends on using as his bodyguard. We're going to use the system from scavengers guide to droids so he can sacrifice swift's to give orders. Now just to figure out how to lvl him?


Urdo Fenn= he chose to go with all armor talents including attune armor from the jensaari. And instead of taking any attack feats took improved damage threshhold. He was a massive brick who did exactly what I thought he would he trundled up and handed out a whooping. It was fun I let him barge through a bunch of debri, and even a thin partition with a str check. and he totally got a chance to use force shield and to cut open a door that was disabled.

Fun

And yes Mr. Darth Psuedonym I totaly aglree it is a preference issue as far as the weapon and I wouldn't  choose it for a straight melee build this guy is a breaching specialist so I totally get it. And as far as the licensing it's a widely used construction tool getting one would be like going to space lowes and buying a chainsaw or more accurately one of those 2 handed chop saws. But again the licensing  in this system generally denotes effectiveness or danger and this doesn't so I can completely see the issue.

Ree-2-Kee= at the last minute he swapped out one of the powers he had chosen for enlighten and wow did that pay off he got Urdo out of a bad spot with that one it was rather entertaining. The character played better than I expected, so over all that was pleasing. He's playing the character with a lot of quirks and a lot of cold rational with a slightly sinister bend.

Just need to make sure I stay on top of his force points and power suite 


Devroh Tonks= the player decided to go with this character because as he said " we need a little less force and a lot more dakka" so that's what he did. Jetpacks and blasters and crazy good rolling ( re rolled not 1, or 2 but 3 crits) equaled this being my most satisfied player. And the mobile shooter angle looks like it'll pay dividends.

A few jet pack questions though, 

1.) if he had a repulsor pack an not a jet pack could he wire it directly to his armor when he gets good enough armor? Instead of having fuel with limited usage ( my gut says no ).

2.) okay if his armor reduces his speed to 4 does it also reduce his speed via the jetpack to 4? I was allowing him to use the full 6 if the pack was activated. Probably wrong but it just feels right.


Ohgwie= well we went with the build you provided mr. Darth Psuedonym and he dug it but I foresee Some issues just as he did. . . . Squeezing in the room and situations so that he has a have to fight with his bike more often than not may get cumbersome. However he does want to be able to do it when it comes up so yeah ( he's a player that hasn't seen the table Since middle school do I'm just trying to get him back in and let him be awesome). He likes the idea of punching people more than any other melee weapons, an he didn't shoot at all but he did use his allotment of grenades and thoroughly enjoyed it. May think about making him a multi grabber instead of any other type of melee beast because he wanted to knock some heads together so that's a thought.

He had a few thoughts though the main one being he isn't worried about fighting from his bike and if he was he'd shoot someone, a bike is all about the ride. It's a tool to get 1 place to another. Bikers don't fight from the back of their bike unless they're shooting someone. Usually it's just outrunning cops or other bikers. So I'm contemplating a skill focus instead of the momentum strike but we'll see once he gets to use it a few times.

It's a challenging idea for a build gaaaaaaah.

I want to blow stuff up, ride a bike, punch and shoot people, and be awesome is what he told me.

We shall see.

Thanks Darth Psuedonym, I like the ideas on modding the bike and will probably proceed with doing so.

Thanks, and any additional ideas or critiques are welcome. I'm letting the players work out what they want as we go and make changes since we're all new to the system.

He needs two in his hands. Notice that Returning Bug says he gets the bug back IF HE MISSES. He doesn't have an infinite bug supply. Every time he hits, he needs to pull out new bugs or go pick up the ones he threw already.

In general, Rapid Shot isn't worthwhile for throwing weapons.


No. The fuel supply is a major limiting factor on a jetpack, second only to the weight involved. If you want to, look at the Hush-about jetpack from the Force Unleashed book, which is basically a normal jetpack except it only gets 6 charges per fuel pack and lets you stealth while flying without movement penalties. You could take that and claim it's a repulsorlift pack, but it'll still get 6 charges per power core and require unique 100 credit fusion cells. No avoiding the costs associated with jetpacking. (You could say that it runs on standard 10-credit energy cells and just requires 10 of them, which makes me laugh a little at the whole "christmas morning" aspect of it.)

That said, I think it'd be better to just say no entirely. If there were repulsor packs capable of easily lifting a human, wouldn't Fett have had one? Instead he has a chemical rocket.


Actually you got it right. The jetpack gives you fly speed 6, not fly speed equal to your ground speed. That's one of the main reasons to use one, actually -- it allows a heavily armored character to get around quickly when they need to.


As long as he just has one vehicle-oriented talent, he probably won't be hurting too much. He might want to spring for Melee Defense or Dodge + Mobility to get a defense bonus against AOOs when he's doing run-by attacks and not using his bike for cover. The main thing is to make sure he doesn't go all out, spending all his character resources on bike-related abilities that he can only sometimes use.

I don't recall if I mentioned this: If he wants to focus on throwing grenades, Mighty Throw is a must-have feat. I think it's in FUCG. It lets him add his strength to his grenade attack rolls and range inc. (And that's ADD, not use in lieu of dex. If he has a +3 STR and +1 DEX, he'll be throwing grenades at 4+BAB !) If I might make a suggestion, have him lose Momentum Strike and instead buy heavy weapon proficiency. That makes him proficient with vehicle mounted weapons (which also get a +2 for being pilot-operated but don't benefit from his Dex or anything), so on the bike he'll have a forward gun, and then he can use a grenade launcher as his handgun weapon. I love the mental image of a biker reaching back over his shoulder to fire a grenade launcher one-handed at the guy following him almost as much as the biker zooming by and delivering a brutal melee hit.

Working in wide-open mission areas is easier in SW than it is in some games. Try to stay out of the D&D dungeon-crawl mindset and you'll probably do okay.

Okay, thanks a lot Darth Psuedonym, that clarifies a lot as far as issues I had in the last session. I've got a few more snags I'm working through at present if anyone would like to help. Turns out my players need me to help them both build every aspect of their characters and to design backgrounds yay ( I don't mind though)

So. . . . . . .



Ohgwie= Alrighty I dig the heavy weapons prof. As much as I like the riding by hitting people. Only issue is, well a ton of things the player is now contemplating a dip in scoundrel for a level to get bomb thrower and then maybe set an example.

Gaaaah, it's a bit weird he's getting into things now and I'd like to keep it that way but he's really trying to be Opie from sons of anarchy and I'm trying to be like hey you can't be awesome at everything all at once.

None-the-less, it's awesome he's taking an interest I just have to interest him in a niche I think. So character as is + maybe swapping momentum strike for heavy weapons prof.

Urdo Fenn= He is contemplating dropping the force aspect of his character and
Going all out brute. I personally like the teensie bit of force the character has and where as it may weaken the build I think it strengthen's the concept. What do you guys think? He's open to advice so that's the only reason I ask, he doesn't care either way he was just having 2nd thoughts is all I think.


Allume= here's my thing with him I'm pretty attached to the reared by a rogue Vong in hiding aspect of this character and I'm not entirely sure how to best go about it? The bugs seamed like it but they're pretty feat intensive to make work and expensive. So I've got other ideas maybe switch the background and give him the crippled back ground with a biotech replacement limb? Or a shaped pet the equivalent of a womp rat? Or just some other vongish biotech equipment? Any thoughts?

I know you can Make anything biotech but I was just wondering like what types of equipment or weapons would you guys suggest?

That's all for now the other 3 players are actually really satisfied with their characters and how they play.

Thanks all

Don't worry too much about it. Let him experiment, and if he comes to you later and says he wants to trade a few feats and such to focus more on one aspect, let him have a respec token. One time only -- don't let him go fiddle with his character every other session or something.

You might remind him that copying an existing character is fine, but don't assume he has to be THE BEST at everything he does. Opie fights well? Martial Arts I. He doesn't need to be the best brawler in the world -- it's a valid option he has available, but not necessarily a major focus of the character.

I think it's a great thing for players to take one or two feats/talents that aren't directed towards the main point of the character, as long as they don't spend so much that they wind up in that 'master of none' zone. It's easy to start grabbing all your feats and talents with an eye towards your favorite combat style -- be that big melee weapons, sniper fire, unarmed, or whatever. But I like to see characters spending a few resources outside that specialty, whether that's becoming very good as a skill that's not part of their schtick (the sniper with Stealth is obvious; the sniper with Mechanics -- or better yet, Persuade -- is not) or gaining a combat option they don't often use.


This is another of those "outside your schtick" things. I love having a character who isn't a jedi, or indeed any sort of force user, who just happens to have sensitivity. He probably don't even realize that's what it is; he would put it down to luck, or say he's learned to trust his instincts, or some similar thing. He doesn't realize he's "searching his feelings"; he just has a "nose for trouble" that tells him when he's about to get in trouble. He doesn't know what "sense surroundings" is, but sometimes he can just feel that he's being watched from the shadows. He doesn't believe in telepathy, but there was that time when his parents "just knew" he was in trouble.

This can extend to even more than the basic untrained UTF skill rolls. He's qualified to take force talents, and while most wouldn't be appropriate, there are a few -- Force Flow comes to mind, and some of the Dark Side talents would work as well. Or it could be a meta-explanation for some of the talents he has, such as the Scoundrel's Knack and Lucky Shot, or the Noble's almost preternatural ability to boost morale.


Any of those would work well. But does he really NEED a particularly Vong character trait? You could just say that his background gives him the necessary knowledge to be normally proficient with bio-engineered items (which normally give a -5 if you don't have a vong-related talent/feat).

That said, I kinda like the idea of him having lost an arm at some point and it was replaced with a bio-replica. Even better if that arm has a secret built in, like retractable claws, a biological slugthrower, or a hidden pouch. I would handle this as if adding upgrades to normal equipment with the S&V modification rules, but just say it's all biological.

For claws, he gets the Natural Weapon bio-mod in addition to the replica arm, but while natural weapons are normally difficult to hide, in this case you apply the "Cloaked" upgrade to the claws, which applies a -5 to perception checks to notice it when not in use. This effectively brings the check modifier for the "difficult" deception check to hide a natural weapon down to the same as the "moderate" necessary to disguise the replacement limb in the first place, at which point I'm just going to treat the whole arm as a moderate difficulty deception.*

A bio-slugthrower would be a standard slugthrower pistol with the bio-equipment template applied, dual geared into his arm and with Cloaked applied to it. Like the claws, he has it built into his arm, but unlike the claws (which are always ready for use), it would require a swift action to ready for use, and his hand would be disabled until he switches back as another swift**. Technically dual gear and cloaked together would be two upgrades rather than one, but as slugthrowers are strictly second-rate weapons to start with, I don't think this is a problem. You could get the same results by stripping a blaster for damage, which makes it 3d4, and then using the bio template to make it do piercing damage. 3d4 and 2d6 are effectively the same, so just saying "bio-slugthrower" is easier.

The hidden pouch is the Secret Compartment upgrade; he can store one item a size smaller than his arm inside it, and it requires a VERY high perception to find the pouch. I'd rule that his arm can store one Fine-sized object inside it. That could be a commlink, a tiny-sized weapon (such as a grenade or holdout blaster), or any piece of equipment that weighs less than a kilogram. I really like this idea. It gives him a useful, flexible benefit that also has that creepy Vong flavor to it.


* If he carefully keeps his arm entirely covered, others don't even get to roll against him unless they're using bio-detection gear, but removing his shirt or glove would then require the check, and if he pops his claws it'll ruin his gloves. That's how I'd deal with it for anything here, actually -- a replica arm can be concealed entirely to avoid the issue, but any exposure will start requiring checks.

** This is a bit of houserulery; I tend to rule that dual gear items require a swift action to switch between modes. Most of the time the second mode disables the first, with the rare exception like adding a flashlight to a gun -- it takes a swift to flip the light on and off, but you can still shoot while it's shedding light.

Here's where Force Using can get broken. One of the major limits to the brokenness of Force users is not being able to dip into just any given talent tree at any time. He dipped into a VERY specific Force Tradition to get one of its better talents.

If he is aligning his backstory with the Jensaari, that's cool and can offer a lot for a role playing goodness and character development.


If The Believers or the Aing Tii Monk talent trees come up in conversation, its a sign things are headed for munchkining.

I assumed that meant he was going to play the character as a Jensaari and has GM approval. If etiher of those isn't true, he needs to pick a different talent.

You can't grab force tradition talents without GM approval, and generally you should only belong to one force tradition (jedi, warden of the sky, etc); a Jedi who learns a talent that belongs to another tradition is either a Jedi Master using the special ability of that class to take force tradition talents he otherwise couldn't take, or has special GM permission to do so, generally through a ROLE PLAYING encounter wtih a member of the tradition in question, who agrees to train him. (This is generally VERY DIFFICULT and is the reward for a whole adventure or sidequest.)

So long as he wants to play a jensaari and is willing to adhere to their beliefs and code of conduct, that's fine. If he's grabbing it just to boost his armor, the answer is a resounding NO.

Allume= what no love for a shaped womp rat?

I totaly agree there's no actual need to include Yuuzhan Vong, exept to make his dude awesome. And, I just had the feeling it would be cool to spice him up a bit with like something. A biotic hand cannon or finger spear or something even a few one time uses like that eel type thing that's basically a thermal detonator.

That said I really dig the arm with something in it. Especially the little roo pouch idea. He's still undecided hopefully tomorrow he'll have an answer as to if he wants to stay with bugs, switch up his options, or drop it and just have it as background flavor.


Ohgwie= I think with this one it's just the easing him back into the game aspect of it he's uneasy and has a clear picture in his head. The more he plays the better this'll get I think. The build is solid as it stands and the rest is all in the roleplaying aspects.


Urdo Fenn= okay with him, I am the one who gave him permission ( as I said before I play fast and loose) the entire idea with Fenn is that he came into his power during a giant crash/ accident with a load full of slaves that he (a slave) helped capture. When his innate power awoke it strengthened him enough to survive the crash and to attempt to save the slaves whom he had brought into this.

Honestly he wouldn't know how to be an uber gamer munchkin it's not his way.

It was either the dr 10 or the attune armor he just thought his character would externalize his strength into his armor. So that's how he went.

This dude doesn't even know what a jensaari is, and neither does his character.

And he doesn't want much to do with the force outside of healing others and surviving.

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And I agree with the whole out of schtick thing you were talking about Darth Psuedonym and I tried to get the players to include a hint of that in each of their builds. I had just hoped for them to remain strong in their chosen fields.

Again thanks all