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hello,

Surely this isn't possible and is just a glitch in SagaForge, but is it possible to BurstFire AND Double Attack? i.e. to do 2 Burstfires in 1 round?

Thanks!

Sure you can! Why not? Burst Fire just modifies a normal attack, the same as Rapid Shot. There's nothing about it that would make it impossible to use with Double Attack.

The down side is you have to be willing to take both penalties. Burst fire is still an autofire attack, so you take the usual -5. If you're double attacking (a full round action), you obviously can't brace to mitigate that, and double attack itself applies a -5 penalty, so you're at -10 on both attacks and therefore unlikely to hit anything strong enough to be worth burst firing against. You can spend some talents and feats to mitigate each of those penalties, but if you're going that far, "double autofire" is kind of your schtick and you've paid the necessary price to be good at it.

Huh... wow. Who'd have guessed such a thing was possible.

That's quite an argument for at least 2 levels of Multi Attack Proficiency (rifles) then...

If you really want to go nuts...

Burst Fire + Double Attack + Dual Wielding

In Scum & Villainy, there's the sub-repeating blaster, which is the SW equivalent of a machine pistol and can be used one-handed. Yes, you'd accrue massive attack roll penalties (-5 for Burst Fire, -5 for Double Attack, -10 for attacking with 2 weapons), but that can be mitigated with Controlled Burst (reduce the autofire penalty to -2 for unbraced fire), Multiattack Proficiency in Pistols (taken twice for a -1 penalty), and then Dual Weapon Mastery III (no off-hand penalty), taking the penalty for each pistol down to -3 each. It'll take a while to get there, but that's a whole lotta dakka in one round. Not enuff dakka, but pretty darn impressive. Toss in a little Weapon Focus (pistols), Superior Accuracy tech spec mod (also S&V) and light 'em up!

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Or if you're willing to eat a few more penalties, hit up the Wookiee Grip feat from Galaxy of Intrigue and dual wield some bigger guns.

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I believe you take a -5 penalty to wield any kind of rifle in one hand. Does this feat trump the rule in sidebar on Core Rulebook page 125?

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I'm inclined to say it does, since Wookiee Grip doesn't distinguish between ranged or melee weapons, just weapons normally too big for you to use one-handed, and even then it doesn't say the weapon has to be a size category bigger than you.

_________________
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never been on acid."
- Eddie Izzard

Contributing Author of the GSA
Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
Follow me on Twitter at @donovan421

I disagree, Dono.

I don't think the feat is meant to remove the penalty for using a rifle one-handed. That's a question of design rather than your ability to hold it. After all -- even without Wookiee Grip, a small rifle is STILL going to require two hands for a medium creature despite being a light weapon. I don't see how wookiee grip changes that.

Or to put it another way: A rifle doesn't require two hands unless it's a size larger than you (as normal). It just penalizes you for using one hand, due to being a rifle. So wookiee grip would allow a human to one-hand a Large rifle (using a two-handed weapon one-handed) at the usual -5 penalty plus an extra -2 for the feat. But it would not allow you to one-hand a Medium rifle without the -5, because a medium weapon is already one-hand-able.

However, it's easy enough to slap a retractable stock on any rifle weapon to let it flip to "pistol mode". Then, assuming it's one-hand sized, you can use it in one hand at the cost of your ranges dropping to pistol. But that's not a terrible thing.

I see your point. The feat reads:

"When using a weapon in which you are proficient and that normally requires two hands, you can wield that weapon with a single hand. You take a -2 penalty to attack rolls with the weapon when it is used in this manner."

So you're saying that since a rifle does not "normally require" 2 hands, it just penalizes you for wielding it 1-handed, this feat may not apply. On the other hand, a Large weapon does "require" 2-hands (for a medium creature).



PS: can you put a retractable stock on a Bowcaster?

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Compiled files of all resource documents & reference tools- NPCs, character sheets, DoD, Saga Index to all feats, talents, species, weapons, etc, Star Wars web enhancements

That's what I'm thinking. It's pretty clear that this feat is meant to address using a big weapon one handed, not weapons that you use two handed for other reasons.

Actually now that I think about it, there are a few weapons that do actually require two hands regardless of size. The bow is the basic example here -- and surely no GM would allow Wookiee Grip to let you shoot a bow one-handed. That's just absurd...


Sure. In S&V it says you can put one on any rifle or pistol, or any rifle- or pistol-like exotic weapon. It costs no upgrade slot to add one to a rifle or rifle-like (as they already have a stock that you're just replacing), but it costs 1 slot to put one into a pistol.

So wait, does that mean you can use Pistol Prof. w/ a retracted bowcaster?

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I'd say no, as a Bowcaster typically requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency in order to use, and a piece of fairly cheap equipment shouldn't override that fact.

Wookiees might be an exception, since they're considered proficient with Bowcasters so long as they have WGP (rifles), and for most heroic characters, if they've got WGP (rifles), then they've got WGP (pistols) as well, with Jedi being the exception.

_________________
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never been on acid."
- Eddie Izzard

Contributing Author of the GSA
Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
Follow me on Twitter at @donovan421

So wait, does that mean you can use Pistol Prof. w/ a retracted bowcaster?[/quote]
The rules for using a retracted stock are a little weird that way. My personal house rule is that when you use any effect to change the effective proficiency type of a weapon, you have to be proficient with both the original weapon type AND the new one to use the weapon proficiently.

So for example, a bowcaster with a retracted stock would require you to have exotic proficiency (bowcaster) or weapon proficiency (rifle) if you're a wookie, and pistol proficiency.

The weapon still counts as a pistol when you retract the stock for all other purposes, like applying feats and talents that only work for certain weapons (like Double Attack, Weapon Focus, or Devastating Attack).

Similarly, if you strip a weapon's design to make it exotic, you still need to be proficient with the original weapon in addition to the new exotic prof. (For example, if you strip a LS for design, then take "exotic proficiency (my lightsaber)", you still need to have lightsaber proficiency or you'll still count as nonproficient.)