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 Post subject: Re: Occupied Space
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:19 am 
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Sith Lord
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Posts: 2518
Location: Tacoma, WA
illslim2 wrote:
I would like to add as a GM/DM who has done a game or two with a rules lawyer in the group. That I make sure my players know now my rule argument house rule.

Be damn well sure it is worth an argument before you begin said discussion/argument. I look at it like this. A game with 6 players and one of the players wants to argue a rule point for 10 minutes (digging thru books and discussing).... 6you are not wasting 10 minutes of time in my eyes. Mt equation is this 5 players + 1 GM/DM = 6. 6 x 10mins = 1 hour of time you have used/wasted (if arguing something moot and stupid).

So I beg caution about trying to discuss rules for to long or often during the game. But this goes to finding the right group for you with the right GM/DM for your groups play styles. That will cut this down a lot.

I came up with this due to I am pretty laid back and all about the fun. I also believe the story arc I come up with is just a outline sketch, and the players fill in the rest or sometimes alter. But a asshat min maxer or just general douche bag can come along and try and abuse it for any numerous reasons. Therefor my house rule. You waste 1 hour of time via my equation and it is something silly be ready for your punishment I mean reward.

I'd also encourage you to listen to the wise words of the GMs Chris and Dave, who have said on multiple occasions that it's worth a sit-down; either at the table if your group has a lot of rules lawyers, or one-on-one if you've just got the one problem player; tell them that you're the GM, and ask them to trust you to run a fun campaign. Rules discussions can happen after the fact. I LOVE talking with my players about rules, and I LOVE it when they pick my brain about character builds or ask me how one of my NPCs did something cool. And I love it when they call me on rules I messed up - not that it happens often because *raises hand* I'm the rule lawyer in the group.
But NEVER do we have rules discussions at the game table. At the very most, I spend 10-20 seconds looking up a rule if I need refreshing and it's important to the scene; otherwise, I make the call and we go with it. It's so much more fun when it's like that.

_________________
Saga Edition Resources:
My Google Docs Character Record Sheet
SE Official FAQ Compilation - SE Official Errata & Clarifications - Jedi Counseling 105 to 115

Edge of the Empire Resources: Beta Updates, crib sheets, and other goodies


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 Post subject: Re: Occupied Space
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Gamer

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Posts: 128
Location: St Louis Mo
Thank you for the advice. I am good though. I do the before game chat, and remind them whenever needed too. Also I try and not game with the rules lawyers anymore. But sometimes it does happen.

I was just sitting here before I posted the above post thinking.
Hardly see the disclaimer of not trying to slow down the game with rules discussions.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupied Space
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Minis Enthusiast
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:37 pm
Posts: 1103
Location: Florida, USA
Awaypturwpn wrote:
illslim2 wrote:
I would like to add as a GM/DM who has done a game or two with a rules lawyer in the group. That I make sure my players know now my rule argument house rule.

Be damn well sure it is worth an argument before you begin said discussion/argument. I look at it like this. A game with 6 players and one of the players wants to argue a rule point for 10 minutes (digging thru books and discussing).... 6you are not wasting 10 minutes of time in my eyes. Mt equation is this 5 players + 1 GM/DM = 6. 6 x 10mins = 1 hour of time you have used/wasted (if arguing something moot and stupid).

So I beg caution about trying to discuss rules for to long or often during the game. But this goes to finding the right group for you with the right GM/DM for your groups play styles. That will cut this down a lot.

I came up with this due to I am pretty laid back and all about the fun. I also believe the story arc I come up with is just a outline sketch, and the players fill in the rest or sometimes alter. But a asshat min maxer or just general douche bag can come along and try and abuse it for any numerous reasons. Therefor my house rule. You waste 1 hour of time via my equation and it is something silly be ready for your punishment I mean reward.

I'd also encourage you to listen to the wise words of the GMs Chris and Dave, who have said on multiple occasions that it's worth a sit-down; either at the table if your group has a lot of rules lawyers, or one-on-one if you've just got the one problem player; tell them that you're the GM, and ask them to trust you to run a fun campaign. Rules discussions can happen after the fact. I LOVE talking with my players about rules, and I LOVE it when they pick my brain about character builds or ask me how one of my NPCs did something cool. And I love it when they call me on rules I messed up - not that it happens often because *raises hand* I'm the rule lawyer in the group.
But NEVER do we have rules discussions at the game table. At the very most, I spend 10-20 seconds looking up a rule if I need refreshing and it's important to the scene; otherwise, I make the call and we go with it. It's so much more fun when it's like that.


Agreed. However, you should remain sensitive to the needs of your players. If a player wants to pull off some particular attack, action, etc. based on the rules themselves, and you as the GM say no, it can come off as arbitrary and (at times) petty. If your player goes into a game thinking that the universe works a certain way because that's how the rules are written, then it can be very disappointing when you whip out your GM/god card and (metaphorically) pull their universe's floor out from under them. It is important to have a standard way in which the universe works, otherwise your players will only be interested in pleasing you rather than abiding by an objective and rational basis for how the game universe behaves; this opens up all sorts of potential problems (real or perceived favoritism, frustration, resentment, pretty much anything you see in stories regarding meeting one's creator - Shelly's Frankenstein, I Robot, Star Trek I, etc.) Also, this can leave the players with a feeling of railroading - any success they have will feel like it's more because of your benevolence then their own ability to play the game, and any failure they have will feel like its due to your spite or capriciousness.

While you might not want to spend too much time considering specific rules at the table (and I fully understand that approach), make sure you explore what your player is trying to do later on. And if it's an insightful use of the game system, I'd be inclined to let them use it - for many players, that's where the fun is at.

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aka Jim Jedi-Scramble

Quoting from the Saga Edition Core Rulebook: "The galaxy is a dangerous place (p. 143)...bad things happen sometimes. (p.246)"


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 Post subject: Re: Occupied Space
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:41 am 
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Jedi Master
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Posts: 1541
Awaypturwpn wrote:
GM Jedi-Scoundrel wrote:
NO!....not...the...Pedantry generator! Awaypturwpn is peaceful...he has no weapons!!

*Field-creates a weapon as a Standard action, kits it out with the Tech Specialist "Pedantry Generator Destroyer" Weapon Trait*

Do you really think you can destroy a pedantry generator with house-ruled equipment?


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 Post subject: Re: Occupied Space
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:24 am 
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Darth Plif: Hoopy Frood [Moderator]
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:03 am
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Location: Ord Mantell (Lawton, OK)
Darth Pseudonym wrote:
Awaypturwpn wrote:
GM Jedi-Scoundrel wrote:
NO!....not...the...Pedantry generator! Awaypturwpn is peaceful...he has no weapons!!

*Field-creates a weapon as a Standard action, kits it out with the Tech Specialist "Pedantry Generator Destroyer" Weapon Trait*

Do you really think you can destroy a pedantry generator with house-ruled equipment?

But he can Tech Spec strip it for a Slot, and dual-gear install a "Harmonic Snark Amplifier".

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