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Let me ask this: Would you be happier if the "strip for design" required you to be proficient with both the original weapon class AND the newly minted exotic weapon?

I don't think the stripping rules were originally intended to let you strip a weapon for design and then take the required exotic proficiency when you weren't proficient with it in the first place. (In other words, "I can't use lightsabers, but I took Exotic Proficiency: My Lightsaber and stripped it, and now I can use it.")

To me, that's always been the clean intent of this feature. It only makes sense from an in-universe perspective. I *know* how these weapons function, and how I can move things around to keep it working the way it's supposed to, but in a way that's going to give me room to further tweak it, with the added bonus of preventing anyone else from using my special blaster pistol on me should an enemy take it from me. If I'm not proficient with the weapon, how am I going to know that moving this part of the weapon over here isn't going to cause the weapon to explode?

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Well hey, a mechanic doesn't have to know how to shoot a rifle accurately to fix one, nor does he need to be able to fly a ship to keep its engines running. There's no rule that says you need to be proficient to perform upgrade tasks.

But I think I know where you're going with this; if you aren't proficient with the base weapon, how can you be proficient with a version of the weapon that is harder to use than the base?

But isn't the point of exotic weapon mastery that you can use any weapon that most normal people would find too hard to use?

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Just an idea, but maybe it's not so much that the modified weapon is that much harder to use is that you've pretty much tweaked it to be something that you're comfortable using but is a right pain in the arse to use for anybody else.

Again, I think the simple fact that you've got a PC that has dedicated quite a few resources to get to this point and to really take advantage of it doesn't make it a "huge game-breaker," and is far milder than most CT Killer builds, particularly as they had to spend a Prestige Class talent (very limited resource, especially as games tend to petter out someplace between 10th and 12th level it seems) as well as the money get their tricked-out gear.

And if the GM really has an issue with it, they can drop "strip to make it an exotic weapon" as an option from the already optional Gear Customization rules.

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Yeah you guys all make compelling arguments. I guess the cheese factor isn't so great as I originally thought it might be. I suppose if you were also to take the Improvised Weapon Mastery feat, you could make anything into a deadly exotic weapon.
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Now here's a monkey wrench in the fold... How about Rakatan Weapons, and Rakatans themselves?

I'm AFB, but

a.) if the Gladiator was a rakatan and it was stripping weapons that were 3 times exotic at that point...

Say the cerean ceremonial short sword that has no penalty to rapid striking because it's only a d4. exotic weapon. then strips that weapon making doubly exotic. then is rakatan, has knowledge tech, and creates a schematic for a rakatan blade of the smae type, then strips it making it triple exotic...

I know that is a corner case, but it's one that's lingered in my mind since I saw that gladiator talent. even more odd, that weapon template and the talent are in the same book, so there is a good chance that they at least could have forseen some interaction.

so, would that weapon, triple-y exoticed be "unfair" for the reletively low price of 1 exotic feat and one talent over another gladiator that stuck to advanced weapons?

I think the idea of a "Rakatan Cerean" weapon (Shyarn) is one that the Devs would expect to be disallowed by the rules preceding the Gear Templates in KotOR. But that would be crazy combo. 4d6 if you have rapid strike.
I realize "Cerean" isn't a template, but still it's a separate culture from the Rakata.

Furthermore, he wouldn't be able to strip an exotic weapon. The Shyarn is already exotic so it can't have its design stripped.

Also wouldn't Rakatan weapons be in this same category? Ie, just because Rakatans treat Rakatan Weapons as their normal weapons group doesn't mean a Rakatan can strip the design of a Rakatan Weapon. It would be like if a Wookiee tried to strip the design of a Bowcaster or Ryyk blade. Would he be able to? I'm not sure I would allow it.

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I think I would allow it in those cases. IIRC, these races treat the weapon as a different weapon type altogether, meaning that in their cases, it's *not* an exotic weapon.I think a Wookiee hunter would be wholly justified in stripping his prized bowcaster to an exotic weapon and taking the EWP: My Bowcaster feat. The only kick in the pants would be that any non-Wookiee who has the EWP: Bowcasters feat would be able to pick it up and fire it despite the fact that it's been modified in this way.

But I agree with your other statements. If a weapon is already an exotic weapon, this flat out isn't an option, just as stripping the stun setting off of a vibroblade or the autofire option off of a hold-out blaster isn't going to fly.

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eehhhhhh...it just starts getting really messy at that point. I see your point, and I agree it would be fair for a Wookiee to strip his bowcaster's design and take the Weapon Proficiency (Rorworro's Bowcaster) feat, but then wouldn't another non-Wookiee need the specific Weapon Proficiency (Rorworro's Bowcaster) feat as well? Cuz at that point it's not a normal bowcaster.
I'd say the real kick in the pants, if this kind of stripping is allowed, comes from the Gladiator's aforementioned talent. Because he would be able to wield Rorworro's Bowcaster just fine.
But...then for him it would be an exotic, exotic weapon. And that is so totally against any semblance of rules. So that's why I don't think Wookiees should be able to strip the designs of their bowcasters.

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From my perspective, usage of an item doesn't increase in difficulty per se, it becomes more different, ya know? It isn't necessarily 'difficult' to use, but it is different enough that one has to really reorient their self in order to use it efficiently. An example would be , say, a normal blaster pistol built to conform to the grip of an ithorian or something. A human would treat it as exotic because it just doesn't fit in his hands as well as a normal blaster should. Gladiators, having to use whatever is at their disposal, would know how to overcome peculiarities, as their survival depends on it.

BUT...

When you strip an "exotic" weapon for an extra component slot, then it gains an additional requirement.

Now, of course, I'm AFB but there is an added requisite that stripping an exotic weapon gains. Under a normal circumstance a rakatan Sharyn built to be balanced specifically for Bendak Statkiller would require 3 feats to be proficient in. One is exotic prof sharyn, one is exotic prof rakatan, one is exotic prof Bendak Starkiller's weapons.

Outside the gladiator talent, this is normally fair, if not a bit over costed, but those are the breaks. with the gladiator talent this get's very strong.

So I don't think a situation like that is abusive in terms of the weapon template/stripping rules as much that it shows the interaction of how a sinlge talent can reach out.

It is an oddly understated point, but again, the Rakatan template is in the same book as the gladiator talent. So any gladiator that takes that talent can use w/o penalty any rakatan weapon (since you need adv prof to enter gladiator, and the talent makes you proficient in any exotic weapon).

Now, I could see rather than calling the customized weapon groups or rakatan weapon groups exaotic, calling them independent weapon groups. so it's not exotic prof (rakatan) it's weapon prof (rakatan). that would solve a lot of the issues, the same with customized weapons, weapon prof (customized: #name).

What do people think of that?

If a weapon is already exotic, you can't strip for design. "Weapons already in the exotic category can't use this option." Your character's special abilities don't matter.

Using the above example, a bowcaster is an exotic weapon. Wookiees treat bowcasters as rifles instead of exotic weapons, but that doesn't change that a bowcaster is exotic. The same goes for the rakatan weapon template; gear templates aren't something you can add or remove, so the weapon IS exotic when it's made, and the fact that rakatans ignore that is irrelevant. It can't be stripped that way.

I would also rule that the Rakatan template can't be applied to exotic weapons.

Right, exactly. If you don't really know how to shoot a rifle, and you find a rifle with a weird trigger group and an akwardly large stock, knowing how to overcome all those issues doesn't make you know how to shoot a rifle in the first place.

It is metagaming? Yeah, maybe a little. But no more so than the cheese of trying to use Strip Design to gain proficiency in the first place.

By the way, let me point out that "strip design" is not personalization. It is not adjusting the weapon to be better for you and worse for others. It is making the weapon more awkward, less usable, for everyone including yourself in order to make room for an extra upgrade. The feat accounts for learning to overcome the difficulties you added. We're talking about badly balanced weapons, awkward grips, protruding parts, and so on, not "sized for an ithorian" or "adjusted for my particular shooting style".