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I resist that purely because I think that would nerf the concealed holster. That -5 to the stealth check is there to pay for the fact that you gain the ability to attack in the same turn you draw. The difference between a swift and a move isn't nearly as big as the difference between a move and a standard.

No it doesn't. Someone with Quick Draw and a concealed holster can draw the weapon as a swift action. Everything adds together.

Normal: draw a concealed weapon as a standard action
Quick Draw or concealed holster or Hidden Weapons: draw a concealed weapon as a move action
Quick Draw + Concealed holster or Quick Draw + Hidden Weapons: draw a concealed weapon as a swift action

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Rainbow Dash is proud to be a Kiwi. Are you?

This question on Skill Challenge XP came up in another thread & I decided to re-post it over here because the OP, me & a couple other posters couldn't find it in GoI. So I'd say the relevant rule was pretty hidden.

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Arkansas Regional Captain & proud member of Spice Runners Squadron
Kessel Base, The Rebel Legion

"The bad guys hardly ever quote Star Wars."
Harry Dresden, Cold Days

Yes, but that wasn't my point.

Changing a standard action into a move action allows you to make an attack where you previously could not. The standard rules are that if you have a concealed weapon without a concealed holster to put it in, you basically have to forego attacking in the turn you're drawing the weapon. In other words, you can't pull it from your pocket and shoot the guy in one turn, so he'll have the chance to open fire on you or draw his own weapon (or both) before you can get a shot off, and either way he'll stop being flat footed before you shoot so you won't be throwing down all your sneak attacks and dastardly strikes and whatever.

By the RAW, the concealed holster allows all that, with the balancing cost of a -5 to the concealment check.

If you allow quickdraw to have the same effect without the -5, there's virtually no reason to use a concealed holster if you have the feat. At that point the holster is allowing you to draw as a swift instead of a move -- which is nice, but not really necessary, and probably not worth the penalty.

At any rate, this isn't the right thread for a discussion of house rules.

I agree this isn't the right place for it, so I'll just quickly say: Quick Draw is often considered to be a rather lame feat, so I was mostly just trying to beef it up a bit. Although I'm still not entirely convinced by your reasoning, I am starting to come round to the idea that the house rule isn't necessary. If you want to speed up your ability to draw a concealed weapon, then you need either a concealed holster or the Hidden Weapons talent. Both let you draw a concealed weapon as a move action. From there, you can speed things up even further with the Quick Draw feat.

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Rainbow Dash is proud to be a Kiwi. Are you?

Here's another hidden rule: opposed grapple checks to maintain a grab/grapple/pin cost a standard action. You won't find this in the core rulebook or in the devs' attempted clarifications in RavingDork's FAQ. It's in the description of the Pincer droid feat, found on page 24 of Scavenger's Guide to Droids: "Normal: Grapple checks are normally a standard action."

That being said, if you've grappled someone, you don't have to spend any actions or make any checks just to continue to "maintain" your hold on them. As long as they don't escape, you don't have to do anything other than hold them (thus preventing them from moving and imposing a penalty on their attacks). However, if you want to use either the Pin feat or deal damage with a light weapon on a subsequent round while grappling someone, you then have to make a new opposed grapple check, which costs a standard action (as clarified by the Pincer feat).


EDIT: I was just thinking that this thread would be much more useful if the OP had a table of contents with links to each post with a new hidden rule in it (or at least a list of the hidden rules and the post they're discussed in). That would make it much easier to see which hidden rules are discussed in this thread at a glance.

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Rainbow Dash is proud to be a Kiwi. Are you?

yeah I agree, I'll update the OP when I get home tonight and add an index.

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Current Campaign
Star Wars - A Call to Arms

That would be awesome. Thanks!

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Rainbow Dash is proud to be a Kiwi. Are you?

Definition of Attended & Unattended Objects. SECR p. 151 (in "Attack an Object")
I saw a related question here on the forums the other day & just happened to come across this today, so decided to post it here.

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Arkansas Regional Captain & proud member of Spice Runners Squadron
Kessel Base, The Rebel Legion

"The bad guys hardly ever quote Star Wars."
Harry Dresden, Cold Days

So how would you hit an attended object with a force power? Would you use the same formula?

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Combustion is the best force power!!
Level 5! You get to choose your gender!

I'd say yes.

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Arkansas Regional Captain & proud member of Spice Runners Squadron
Kessel Base, The Rebel Legion

"The bad guys hardly ever quote Star Wars."
Harry Dresden, Cold Days

So in other words I can use Force disarm to rip off the BBEG's trousers. More importantly, this makes Force disarm useful for stealing items off of a passerby, tearing holstered weapons from a stormtrooper, ripping a utility belt off of an enemy, or stealing some grenades from their belts. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Of course these would all be insanely difficult to pull off... get it?

No, you can't, because the disarming rules specifically only apply to objects that your target is holding, not items he is wearing or carrying. So no, no "disarming" someone's pants or anything silly like that.

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Rainbow Dash is proud to be a Kiwi. Are you?

Ok, I've added a simple index with post numbers, feel free to point out if I missed anything.

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Current Campaign
Star Wars - A Call to Arms

In a technical sense this is correct; the Disarm action says you can make the target drop a held object.

That said, this is one of those "GM call" things, and I would totally allow you to use Disarm to snatch an object off an opponent's body. I would treat a loosely-secured item -- that is, something the wearer wants to be able to take loose fairly easily, like a comlink, a holstered weapon, a grenade, or keyring -- as held in one hand; and a well-secured item -- like a necklace, wrist-computer, backpack, or utility belt -- as held in two hands (and thus penalizing the disarm check).

As written the only way to remove an item from an enemy's body is with a pickpocket check, and it's a little silly to say you can roll stealth to try to sneak a comlink from a guy's belt, but not just reach out and grab it from him openly.

Obviously it's usually much easier to simply destroy the object if you're just trying to deny its use to your enemy; Disarming is usually needed only if you're wanting to actually take and use the thing.

In no case would I allow you to do something absurd like "disarm" a ring or a pair of pants.

Actually, on second thought, I would allow you to disarm a pair of pants if you use the Force Disarm power and spend the force point to "destroy the item", since removing a pair of pants would necessarily require ripping the pants up. If it's really worth a force point to Force Pants the guy, hey... be my guest. You can't take his armor away, though, since that would affect game statistics and therefore require an Attack An Object attempt.