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Hello all,
I'm a complete saga noob. The deal is, I'm the designated DM/GM in my house. I play with my 2 boys (both under 12). We cut our teeth on D&D redbox and finished the enclosed adventure "Twisting Halls" but found it..meh..mostly due to the long, number crunchy combat encounters with tokens and maps. Also, I'm really not sure we ever did it right. A lot of the time I just made stuff up so we could move along. No one here does that right?

So, after this - the kids were still down for RPG but were wondering if there was something star-warsy they could play. Enter Saga ed. I love the idea of extended cinematic play rather than series of linked encounters a la 4e.

So, coming to the game late I forked over 60 bucks or something for the core rules book and have been working through it. Slowly.

I have this idea to start a modified version of Dawn of Defiance - tweaked for a party of 2 Jedi. No clue how I'm going to do the tweaking but it could just be limiting the number of bad guys in encounters.

My questions are:
1. I would really really like to do this mapless and miniatureless. A theater of the mind sort of thing. I find that the table top part really destroyed the flow in 4e. I know some things are more suited to grids but I'd just as soon fake some line of site issues and other stuff. Is this realistic?

2. Are there any combat encounter tutorials around? I don't really have a handle on these or have an intuitive grasp of stat blocks. This is the kind of thing you pick up by playing with people who know this stuff, but unfortunately, this isn't possible for me. I've searched you tube for videos of saga ed combat encounters but haven't found any. Ideally, if some kind soul could possibly walk me through a sample encounter? e.g. the very first promenade encounter in DoD?

3. Is there some pre DoD quickie that we should do first just work out some kinks?

I kind of feel like I get one shot at this with the kids. If I blow it - they're unlikely to beg me for another game. Having some grasp of encounters and skill challenges would really help along those lines.

Thanks!

First things first, welcome to the game and welcome to the boards.

Second, I've run encounters in both the "theater of the mind" as well as with the table-top. While the first type can work, and it can work very well, but it's been my experience that it does work better when you break out the map and minis. However, this doesn't mean that it needs to bring the game to a grinding halt. I would recommend that you get a good grasp on the rules and how combat flows and begin miniatureless and mapless and then slowly start introducing things to the game as you become comfortable with them as a GM.

As for "tutorials," there are a couple of live-play podcasts on the network that are running Star Wars Saga Edition. Both Threat Detected and the brand new Real Gamers podcast might help you in capturing the feel of the combat encounter/skill challenge. Both Garrett and Brev are very good GMs with a flair for "the rule of cool." I'd recommend you start with those casts.

Finally, just remember to have fun with it. It's Star Wars, not Math Wars. If something's not working, it's your right to throw it out the window and replace it with something that does. A wildly imbalanced game that's a huge amount of fun for everyone involved is much better than the most tightly balanced game that people aren't enjoying.

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Thanks for the reply, I will definitely check out those podcasts you mentioned. I also found some transcripts of what I guess are play by post games which could be helpful. I like the idea of optionally adding the maps and minis little by little once I get a handle on the rules.

Is there a short compelling 1st level adventure that might be better than DoD to get started with? I'm looking for something with more exploration/story telling than straight up fire fights.

And thanks for the warm welcome.

Dijon

Knew I forgot something.

Check out this link and download A Much Larger Galaxy.

It's a first level adventure designed when the game first came out and is very good at introducing the concepts of the game.

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thanks for that link, looks perfect for our first session. I must say the only thing missing about 4e so far is the stat-block design.

Hey, welcome to the forums! I, too, play the Star Wars Saga game with my kids and have been ever since the Revised Core Rules was the standard. Therefore, the best product we all used to learn the game was the Invasion of Theed boxed set. How I wished that when Saga was released that it had something similar. Still, when the latter version of the game was released all of us were pretty familiar with the basic mechanics and were able to convert pretty easily. Like you, I don't like to rely on maps and minis during game play due to the cost and the lack of availability of the miniatures and the maps. In fact, my biggest 'beef' right now is finding that perfect map for whatever particular encounter my players might find themselves in. Good luck with that. There are software tools available to help you manufacture your own maps, however, that just means more time and expense for me as a busy father. No thanks. Most of the time, I make use of blank dry-erasable maps and my youngest kid's toy blocks to provide the environment. Of course, this means that I have to stop the role-play session and spend valuable time creating the scene.

I cut my teeth on Basic, 1st and 2nd edition Dungeons and Dragons and while minis helped visualize things tactically they were pretty much unnecessary. Therefore, when it came to running Star Wars I was already pre-disposed to moving forward without them. So, it certainly can be done even when considering that certain feats and talents rely on an awareness of space. Remember that in SWSE one character-scale square equals 1.5 meters and go from them there.

Only two Jedi, eh? You might want to consider running an NPC yourself to aid the younglings, so to speak. I've used this method as a GM to not only provide better odds for the players in terms of survivability, but also to guide the new players as the 'voice of the GM'. It will also give you a chance to learn the mechanics as a player right along with your kids. Just a thought.

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Secede or Die!

Kotasen in Awaypt's EotE PbP
Guest on Star Wars Saga Edition AP podcast, Threat Detected

DoD will definitely be tough for 2 PCs, not to mention 2 Jedi PCs

However, a GM character that stays as a permanent part of the party can introduce a LOT of problems (some of which are your attention is split during encounters, it can lead to metagaming, it steals the spotlight from your players). You could consider a recurring character that is a sort of mentor to the PCs, but arrange it so that he is not always with them.

My thoughts on the matter are that you should begin play at a higher level (3, 4, or 5). Have your kids build their two Jedi (padawan?) characters, but encourage them to start in other classes (Soldier or Scout would be my suggestion, or possibly Noble as long as they don't waste their talent on Wealth).

The multiclassing will account for their experience during the Clone Wars.
The higher player level will enable them to take on the encounters that DoD presents without much, if any, tweaking.
The multiclassing into Jedi from other classes will give them a wider array of skills with which to play the campaign (there's a lot of stuff written into DoD they won't be able to do effectively if they have a poor skill array, which the Jedi does).

I'd also read ahead in the adventures, make note of the skillful challenges presented therein, and if your sons are looking for help in skill selection, you can point them in the right direction.

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Saga Edition Resources:
My Google Docs Character Record Sheet
SE Official FAQ Compilation - SE Official Errata & Clarifications - Jedi Counseling 105 to 115

Edge of the Empire Resources: Beta Updates, crib sheets, and other goodies

I've been running my 11 year old and 13 year old through A Much Larger Galaxy. It's a 3 PC adventure. They each run a PC, and I run the 3rd one for them.

With beginning/young players I'm not too worried about whether we are metagaming or not. I want them to just have fun and enjoy the experience.

In fact, as beginners they need a little metagaming help from Dad to work their way through the encounters. My PC gives very helpfully suggestions on how they can use their abilities and skills. So far things have worked out very well as all 3 characters have had the opportunity to shine.

My jedi wiped out a group of battle droids with a well placed force slam. My son's soldier critted a killer beast, and the squishier scoundrel character sniped from cover and finished off 2 stormtroopers after the other 2 characters were knocked unconscious.

I agree with more experienced players that interfering and metagaming can be a real problem. With younger ones cutting their teeth with an RPG, don't be afraid to "guide" them a bit with your GM run character.

It wasn't too long before my 11 year old was saying "I'll use my Dodge ability on this guy, I'm gonna aim to hit that guy behind cover and I'm at point blank range so give me my +1 GM Dad, I've got Point Blank Shot."

They'll pick it up quick. Keep the action fast and furious to start with!

Excellent, DSJ. Your experience has echoed mine as well concerning the use of persistent GM-run NPCs and gaming with kids. These constructs are an effective tool when teaching the game to them. As they see you, as the GM, running the character and using its abilities to their greatest effect, they too will pick up on this example and begin to use their own characters in like manner and with even greater creativity as they get used to the game and mature as gamers.

Good on ya!

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Secede or Die!

Kotasen in Awaypt's EotE PbP
Guest on Star Wars Saga Edition AP podcast, Threat Detected

I'm a new GM running DoD for my 14 year old son and some of my friends.

Initially I ran one of the characters just so they could have a scoundrel around and it had a really nice side-effect. When I mentioned Saga Edition to another friend and found out he wanted to join us I already had a character in-game for him to take over. (Turns out he REALLY wanted to play - he owns basically all of the WEG D6 Star Wars books but has no one to play with. It also turns out he's a great gamer and will be a great example for my son to follow.)

I try to go with the Rule of Cool when needed to make sure it stays fun for him. I've nerfed a couple enemies when the party got in over their heads because I could see him checking out. It's far more important to keep the kids "in the game" than to follow the rules. Considering that in their most recent session they mopped the floor with the enemies I think I'm going to have to start beefing them up compared to the stock enemies in the module. Easy fights aren't ever as much fun as the nail-biters.

You might even put "follow the rules" in quotes; because, while some GMs and players can get caught up on playing "by the rules," it's easy to ignore the point of the game: that is, to have fun. If the rules aren't quite working for you, change them up. That's why being a GM is so great: you can ensure that your game is fun for everyone rather than being stuck with a game that's almost fun for everyone.

You might check out richterbelmont10's and Donovan Morningfire's NPC stat block resources. Richterbelmont's is, in particular, full of very powerful (read: optimized, read: slightly broken) NPC builds, and is an excellent resource if your players are the optimizing types

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Saga Edition Resources:
My Google Docs Character Record Sheet
SE Official FAQ Compilation - SE Official Errata & Clarifications - Jedi Counseling 105 to 115

Edge of the Empire Resources: Beta Updates, crib sheets, and other goodies

So cool to see other dads GMing games for their kids! We still haven't started yet as we haven't been able to find the time for the first session (come on rainy weekend!). I didn't just say that...Anyway, I've gone back and forth about running one of the characters in the party. I did just that in our 4e red box game. I played a dwarf fighter, adding to my kids' rogue and wizard. I definitely felt that my DM skills weren't quite advanced (fluid?) enough for me to make that work as well. Plus, it's another turn they have to wait for during encounters, increasing the time between doing stuff. So for Saga, I'm thinking of just having the 2 of them with me trying to balance/nerf encounters on the fly until I can get a handle on what they can..well, handle.

From what I've heard skill focus on UTF can be overpowered at the lower levels and many GMs ban it - which is exactly the reason that I'm going to insist on one of my kids taking it. We'll definitely start with "A Much Larger Galaxy" to see how things work out.