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 Post subject: Force Points house rule
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:33 pm 
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Youngling
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I'm considering a house rule to allow force users to generate force points over multiple rounds.

First, attempt a force power check as normal. Then, if you didn't generate enough power (or enough power of the right kind), you may spend a maneuver to forego the rest of your turn to carry over half of the force points generated (rounded up) to the next round.

Second, attempt another force power check, adding your new roll to the points carried over. If you generated enough (of the right) power, good. If not, then you may again spend a maneuver to forego the rest of your turn to carry over half of the force points in your total pool (including this roll and any previous carry-overs) and try again. You can keep doing this until you either get the pool you want or you just give up.

I'm proposing this because there are many times in the lore that a character will drop everything to focus entirely on one task, such as lifting a heavy object with the Move power, so it seems clear that a user can accomplish greater things by spending more time and concentration on a task. It also rewards patience, a virtue of the light side, over the expediency of just using dark side points.

Balance shouldn't be an issue, since it effectively costs your whole turn (action and maneuver) to do it, and halving the total pool each time keeps it even more under control.

So, would this fly at your table?

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 Post subject: Re: Force Points house rule
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:09 pm 
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While it may not seem that bad of an idea when the PC has a Force Rating of only 1, it can quickly spiral into a problem once the PC starts increasing their Force Rating.

Honestly, at Force Rating 1 the PC shouldn't be expecting to pull off some of the more amazing stunts we see expert Force users like the Prequel-era Jedi accomplish, simply because at Force Rating 1 the PC would be considered a barely-trained neophyte in the ways of the Force.

The "lore" you're referencing should really only be reserved for extraordinary circumstances, not something that just costs their maneuver, which is an incredibly trivial cost in the first place. In many cases, those Force users were probably powerful enough to accomplish the task in the first place, only that their efforts were narratively described as them focusing entirely on that usage of the Force.

Also remember that a combat round is suggested to take somewhere around a minute, and a round outside of combat to generally take several minutes. So again, those instances of a Force user doing nothing but focusing on using the Force could simply be a single round's worth of effort.

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 Post subject: Re: Force Points house rule
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:36 am 
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An easier middle ground for the sake of argument:

Instead, do a discipline check as an action, foregoing all maneuvers. On a success, generate one (and only one) additional force dice for the next force check. Failure is failure.


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 Post subject: Re: Force Points house rule
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:48 am 
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Sith Lord
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I would say focusing over multiple rounds is mechanically represented by rolling repeatedly until you generate enough pips to pull off the thing you're trying to accomplish. Instead of describing your character straining and failing repeatedly, they're just standing there with hand outstretched, giving the task continuous effort until it works.

If the task you're trying to do requires more than twice your force rating, it's just outside your abilities -- you can't possibly generate enough pips to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Force Points house rule
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:57 pm 
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Youngling
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Fair points, one and all. I still like the rule, but your points are duly noted.

In retrospect, I agree that the cost is insufficient; the action economy isn't all that important outside of an encounter, after all, and many force powers aren't even meant to be used during one. To remedy that, I'd add a 1pt strain cost to use the maneuver. The scenes that inspired this rule had the characters visibly straining anyway, so it fits.

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 Post subject: Re: Force Points house rule
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:09 am 
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Two things I see with this hmmmm.

Initiative/combat time:
Action economy, all seems to be covered by other posters.

Out of combat:
Narrative focus is key to dice rolling. If one of my players attempt a Jedi power and generates "the wrong" force than what he needs, for me that represents him trying and trying until something else dramatic has happened. That could be 20 seconds or 10 minutes.
If you can just roll and roll, or roll and take some strain to "power up" I feel you are loosing a lot of the drama of giving in to the dark side or just not being good enough yet.
I can't judge by anything but what you are writing here, but have you reflected on how many rolls you are making your PCs doing/get away with? I might be completely off the mark here, if so just disregard and move along :p


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 Post subject: Re: Force Points house rule
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:45 am 
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In terms of using the Force outside of combat, if there's zero time constraints or pressure to succeed, then just simply figure the PC generated one Force Point for each Force die they'd be able to roll.

Yes, this means that a PC with Force Rating 1 isn't going to be able to accomplish a whole lot... but that's kind of the point with being Force Rating 1. Said PC is an utter neophyte in terms of using the Force, much like Luke Skywalker was during the early part of ESB, before he started training under Yoda.

Remember that in the early part of ESB, Luke had a lot of trouble pulling his lightsaber to his hand. It took him two attempts to succeed, which in this system is reflected by the first Move power check only generating dark side pips but Luke opting not to use them (or possibly the group had no light side destiny points), with the second one coming up with a light side pip and thus allowing the 'saber to come right to his hand. Contrast that with RotJ, where Luke is a Jedi Knight in all but name and how easily he's able to call weapons to his hand (first time a blaster from a guard's holster in Jabba's palace, second time his lightsaber from the Emperor's throne). This is a Luke that's probably got Force Rating of at least a 2 at this point.

Honestly, it sounds like the OP"s issue is that using the Force is actually difficult in the early going, a pretty stark contrast to the d20 games where low-level Force usage could be hilariously overpowered (Saga Edition especially if Skill Focus in Use the Force was taken). I saw a whole lot of this during the EotE Beta, with a lot of posters there whining about how their characters couldn't do the uber-cool Force stuff right off the bat, and that (at the time) they were limited to Force Rating 2 (as Force and Destiny was a few years away), with some going so far as to allow Dedication (which per RAW only affects Characteristics) to boost Force Rating (which is not a Characteristic).

The rules were written more to reflect Luke's slow and gradual progression. And if your PCs want to be able to use the Force more often with a lower Force Rating, then they can call upon the dark side. The game is written with the intent that at the lower end of the power spectrum, the PCs will be making use of those dark side pips every so often as they're frequently struggling with using the Force.

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