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 Post subject: Force Powers and Minions - Help needed
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:44 am 
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n00b

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:04 pm
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Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum, but I have a few sessions of EotE under my belt. I don't know why I came here, since I never listen to the order 66.

I have the following problem: I can't find a clear ruling about Force Powers (for example, Move and Influence) and group of minions. If you frequent FFG forums, you know I have asked this question. I want to see additional answers.

For Move (FaD page 298), I have seen that disarming or moving away 3 Stormtroopers require Magnitud upgrade, in addition to other upgrades, because a PC is affecting 3 objects.

For Influence (FaD page 294) I have seen that with the first upgrade control (10xp), the PC might Influence 3 Stormtroopers with a difficulty 3 and 2 upgrades, considering the minion rules (3 Will and 2 discipline as group skill). In this case, I have seen that this action does not require the Magnitud upgrades.

In the Order 66 podcast (Btw, never listen), the team considers a group of minions as a single target for Influence, Move and Bind.

So, my question is: Does targeting Force Powers to groups of minion requires Magnitud upgrades? And for Influence, If this requires multiple Magnitud upgrades, do I need to apply the minion group rule and increase the difficulty on top of that?

Thanks for the answers!


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 Post subject: Re: Force Powers and Minions - Help needed
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:59 am 
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Sith Lord
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:26 pm
Posts: 3082
Rithuan wrote:
So, my question is: Does targeting Force Powers to groups of minion requires Magnitud upgrades? And for Influence, If this requires multiple Magnitud upgrades, do I need to apply the minion group rule and increase the difficulty on top of that?

There is no official ruling on when a minion group should be treated as a single entity and when they should be treated as a group of individuals. For example, the official ruling on the Blast quality (in the dev answers thread over on FFG) is that each minion in the group is individually struck, which makes explosives very effective against minion groups -- intentionally so. But at the same time, when you do something like give a minion group a boost, setback, or upgrade due to abilities or roll results, those apply to the group as a whole.

But that said: the whole idea of minion groups is to make them faster and easier to run. Does it make sense to force-disarm one minion from a group, and then start talking about how the group has the wound threshold of a four-member group but attacks like a three-member group? Can the one guy who lost his gun go run to get it back while the rest of the group opens fire? What does it mean to have one storm trooper in a group staggered by a Bind while the rest are not?

Since those are ugly, complicated cans of worms, it's an entirely reasonable answer to say that minion groups are treated as a single entity for the purpose of force powers. You attack the group when you hurl an object, similarly if you bind, disarm, or mind-trick them, it's the group you're affecting.

Another argument in favor of treating the group as a single target is the question of opposed rolls. If the minions are trained in Discipline and you hit them with a mind-whammy or some other force power that automatically gives them a save -- such as a Bind Mastery -- they'd clearly be rolling their defense as a group, so why wouldn't the effect of that roll impact the entire group?

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 Post subject: Re: Force Powers and Minions - Help needed
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:08 am 
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n00b

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:04 pm
Posts: 2
Darth Pseudonym wrote:
Another argument in favor of treating the group as a single target is the question of opposed rolls. If the minions are trained in Discipline and you hit them with a mind-whammy or some other force power that automatically gives them a save -- such as a Bind Mastery -- they'd clearly be rolling their defense as a group, so why wouldn't the effect of that roll impact the entire group?


Thank you so much for your answer. Although, I never expect to take the advice form a Dark lord of the Sith :lol:

The last part I quoted, really sell me this way of thinking. I'll communicate to my players that the minions are considered as one target, until I say otherwise. I'll keep this last part in my pocket in case they start to relocating entire blocks of people, or start running for an Imperial Senate position with mass influence.

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Force Powers and Minions - Help needed
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Sith Lord
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Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:26 pm
Posts: 3082
Rithuan wrote:
I'll keep this last part in my pocket in case they start to relocating entire blocks of people, or start running for an Imperial Senate position with mass influence.

Keep in mind that a minion group is specifically that, a group that is acting as a single unit. A random crowd of people isn't a single group of three hundred. Obviously it's up to the GM to determine what does constitute a minion group in any given situation, but in general a minion group should be no more than six individuals (after which point the group's wound threshold would continue to rise, but its skill ranks would be maxed out).

_________________
"Bad guys want your brain" tends to be a strong character motivation.


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