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Cliffnotes: I'm working out the kinks for a campaign world, and have now come to the issue of magic. For lack of a better descriptor, the world is "Dark Sun" (unchecked magic ruined it, people are trying to recover.) So, to represent that mechanically, there will be no magic weapons or armor. The occasional 'lost tech' will show up from time to time, but beyond that, its pretty much their fists and their wits.

That being said, what is the math that needs to be done so that the player's attack and defenses level up appropriately through the campaign?

Do I understand you to mean that there will be no magic weapons or armour, but there may be potions, scrolls, wands, rings and wondrous items in some cases?

Or do you mean "no magic items, at all".

This is not a small point as it will have a significant impact on your game. Please advise.

_________________
.Robert

Potions, rings, and "non armor" items exist, but are extremely rare (as such, they'll be the reward for the end of an arc, not just some loot handed out after an arbitrary fight.)

Potions are the only things that can be guarenteed with any consistency, given that apothecaries are coming back into favor in the court of public opinion.

As a follow-up, I assume that you have not restricted caster classes from play? So if a player wanted to play a Wizard/Sorc, Cleric, Druid, Bard, Paladin or an Oracle, Summoner, Witch etc. - they are allowed to do so?

_________________
.Robert

I am encouraging players to look at druids, oracles, sorcerors and witches if they want a casting class, but the only restrictions are rolEplaying consequences for choosing a caster class. Enough time has passed in the story since the original "Arcane Nuclear Winter" that public opinion has moved to "those who practice arcane are suspicious voodoo practicioners" as opposed to the open hatred that used to exist.

The only real restriction is Paladins are out (but that's due to a B plot I'm going to have involving the reestablishment of a Paladin Police Force kinda thing). They might become choices for future characters.

Okay; Understood.

You should be concerned about the hidden "gotchas" that can surface in a magic-item poor campaign. Some of those are obvious -- and that's the nature of your inquiry, which is good. There are other pernicious effects which can arise from this sort of campaign which are unintended and unlooked for. That's because you are not running a low magic campaign; rather, you are running a low-magic item campaign. They aren't the same and this approach has unintended consequences.

First off, by vastly reducing the chances to find -- and FAR more importantly, purchase-- arcane scrolls, you have utterly hobbled the most iconic character class in the game: The Wizard is SCREWED in a low-magic item campaign (as is the Witch). The Wizard depends upon scrolls and spell books to learn spells (As does the Witch). While the two freebies per level are nice, it isn't "nice enough" -- not even close. This hits especially hard at the Wizard and essentially guts the Wizard's Arcane Bond with an object (the once per day "amulet" spell). The Wizard's Bonded Item is a phenomenally useful ability of the class -- the most useful aspect of the entire Wizard class, in my opinion. By vastly reducing the spells a Wizard can practically learn, a low-magic item campaign effectively turns a Wizard into a Sorcerer without the flexibility of spontaneous casting. Your PC Wizards are not going to be happy.

Worse, while kicking the crap out of the Wizard class (and beating up the Witch only a little bit less), a magic-item poor campaign leaves the divine casters untouched. They continue to know every divine spell there is. The unfairness to arcane casters like the Wizard and the Witch is rather plain and gets progressively worse as the campaign marches on.

To address this, I would permit a Wizard and a Witch to learn four new spells upon levelling, as well as TWO spells EACH of ALL known spell levels when they "graduate" to a new spell level.

Example:Gandalf the Wizard finally makes 5th level. He learns 4 new spells and naturally, he selects all of them to be 3rd level (although he could have taken lesser level spells if he wanted to, in practice, he never, ever, chooses to do so). In addition, having graduated from 2nd level spells to learning 3rd level spells for the first time, he acquires 2 new 2nd level spells as well as 2 new 1st spells to add to his spell book. Gandalf will learn 4 new 3rd level spells when he eventually hits 6th level. Upon achieving 7th level, he will select 4 new 4th level spells, and will learn 2 more spells each of 3rd, 2nd and 1st level. Rinse, Wash, Repeat, as necessary.

Secondly, apart from the pernicious effects of the lack of scrolls on iconic arcane casters, the low magic-item campaign hits non-casters proportionately much harder than casters. Non-casters rely upon their magical gear far more than a caster does, all things being equal. That's because a caster can look to their own spells to buff and for bonuses, whereas the non-casters don't have that to fall back on. As a consequence, the low magic-item campaign perversely magnifies the power of divine casters and places them in a position to overshadow all other PCs. Druids, Clerics and Oracles will reign supreme in this setting. Fighters, Rogues and Barbarians suck in comparison. They suck a lot, in fact.

I very much sympathize with the underlying impetus of what you are trying to do. I get it. I really, really do. I only ask that you consider the unintended consequences upon the game you are trying to run, however, not only on play balance vs the monsters, but with respect to the PCs inter se.

As for making up for lost equipment bonuses for Player Characters vs the Environment (Monsters), you have two basic options, and I'd be inclined to use them both.

Option 1 - Superior Steel

Example: In Core D&D, Masterwork means a fine steel sword which is +1 to hit (but not damage). Masterwork armor reduces the armor check penalty only. While base masterwork armor can function in this manner, in this camapign, I'd also allow Superior Steel shirts which are "+" to AC as well, corresponding with the weapon potential noted below.

Consider adding the following Uber_Masterwork items to your campaign world:

Damascene Steel, +1 to hit +1 damage ( as +1 magic) or -1 Armor Check penalty and +1 to AC for armor
Superior Steel +2 to hit and +2 damage (as +2 magic) or -2 Armor Check penalty and +2 to AC for armor
High Steel +3 to hit, +3 damage (as +3 magic) or -3 Armor Check penalty and +3 to AC for armor

Similarly, consider those equivalents to AC, so that masterwork armor and shields with +1,+2,+3 bonuses to defensive abilities are also permitted. If you are only going to use Option 1- Superior Steel, I would strongly suggest pricing them at 25% of the cost of what a Core Rules "magical version" of the armor or weapon would cost. I suggest this reduction in price not to reflect that non-magical is worth less than magical - because functionally, in game, (weapon breakage aside) they are in most respects completely equivalent. The reduction is cost is instead suggested, as without magical gear to sell, being able to actually afford to buy "superior steel" weapons and armor in game is nigh impossible.

If you are going to use the Inherent Bonus option below, I would still suggest leaving in the "Superior Steel" masterwork items noted above, but make them 50% as expensive as a magical weapon or suit of armor would be. You will find that such items are very, very expensive to purchase and functionally become kick-ass magic (without actually being magic).

Option 2: Increased Inherent Bonuses to BAB / Damage and AC

The alternative is to add in bonuses to BAB, Damage and AC at certain levels in game. The bonus to Hit and to AC are awarded to all classes, using the +1/ 3/4 an 1/2 class BAB mechanic as a rough guideline.

The bonus to BAB, Damage and AC is granted as an inherent bonus of +1 to each of Hit, Damage and AC, suggested to coincide with the following level advancements:

+1 BAB Classes: At 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th 15th 18th and 20th level. Thus, a 12th level fighter has an inherent bonus of +4 to BAB, +4 to DAM and +4 to AC. These bonuses to DAM should multiply when calculating damage for critical hit purposes. While the plus to BAB may seem a little high, please appreciate that the bonuses to damage the melee classes would otherwise be getting from their flaming swords and increased strength, etc. all the time is not present. This seems a reasonable approximation to me. Even then, especially at high levels (13 or so and higher) it's still under powering the melee classes, imo.

3/4 BAB Classes: 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels. Thus a 12th level Cleric has +3 BAB, +3 DAM and +3 to AC. If you are not planning to allow arcane casters to learn spells more readily, then you should consider treating the 3/4 divine casters as 1/2 BAB classes, as this is too generous to the divine casters who are already mighty beefy in a magic-item poor world.

1/2 BAB Classes: 6th, 12th and 18th level: Thus as 12th level Wizard is +2 to hit, +2 Dam and +2 AC. This probably under powers the arcane casters significantly on the AC side, but it's not so bad that it's utterly broken. If you are not planning to allow arcane casters hurt badly in a no-scroll world (the Wizard and the Witch) to learn more spells as they level up, then you should certainly treat them as 3/4 BAB class for the inherent bonuses. Even then, I think you are gutting the class and these are band-aid treatments for a maiming level injury to the class...but, so be it.

That's my take on it on a first blush basis. Others may (and probably will) have differing opinions.

_________________
.Robert

Steel_wind has an excellent point in the scroll department. Witches must actually consume scrolls when attempting to learn, so a low spellcraft roll can instantly destroy a hard-won scroll with no benefit.

As an alternative to increasing the spells known progression, it might be worthwhile to make frequent drops of spellbooks prior to gaining a spell level. Additionally, a witch might encounter another witch willing to teach him/her via familiar/familiar interaction. This allows the witch's familiar to really come into play as a roleplaying element, and allows a sort of "Mentoring". If spellcasters are mistrusted, it would make sense that they are close knit. If you collect a wish list of spells from players, you will be able to control which spells become relevant in your game.

I truly worry about removing magical weapons and armor from the game. Breaking DR/Magic is a big deal in pathfinder, as well as the ability to hit incorporeal creatures such as shadows and wraiths. Additionally, most classes are intended to have a basic increase in attack bonus/damage along standard weapon/armor bonuses. The transmuter/Eldritch knight functions based on a +X sword to land hits on high AC targets, for example. In the end, you're talking about a 5% per tier less chance to hit and higher chance to BE hit. Monster BAB and AC are tuned to values which assume a certain % of wealth spent on weapons and armor.

The real issue here is GM side. NPC/Monster Saves and AC are going to scale faster than a player can typically keep up with if they don't have a magic weapon, and while AC usually far outpaces monster attack bonus if a player concentrates on that stat, in this situation you may very well see monsters routinely hitting on twos. Be absolutely sure to keep magical equipment just as restricted on your monsters. Many medium size monsters at higher CRs have magical equipment. Do not fight these. Be extremely careful about throwing a spellcasting enemy at the players, as magic items tend to be required to defeat incoming magic.

By denying magic weapons/armor and limiting scroll access, you've basically made the monk the prime melee combatant in the world, along with the druid. The cleric is a close second. (He doesn't have an autoflanker who does not rely on magic items for to-hit and damage progression, with a ridiculous natural armor bonus which stacks with nonmagical barding.) The oracle can hold its own. The basic melee classes, however, are really going to want a bard around. The fighters will miss far more often than in other games, and most of their versatility will come from combat maneuvers rather than their magical weapons/armor. The ranger will not really be effective in two weapon fighting mode as their attack bonus cannot keep up enough with a two-handed fighter. Archery will remain fairly awesome, assuming they can obtain ammunition. The rogue will need to work harder than ever before to hit, using intimidation and combat maneuvers to generate AC penalties. Basically, if you're going to play the game with low magic, make sure you do it with damn good players, who know how to work together. This type of game ends with dead parties if they do not pull together all the time, and splitting the party pretty much ever will prove fatal.

As far a "Solution", there's always the metallurgy style solution that Steel_wind has brought up. Remember that the master craftsmen feat allows access to craft magical arms and armor without spellcasting ability, and you can easily create +1 Shortswords that are "mastercraft" rather than magical. Most of the ostentatious energy damage weapon traits would be gone, but more subtle traits like +1, +2, keen, and ghost touch can generally be explained away as "Finding a superior way to heat the metal", "Learning a new alloy", etc. Recover lost tomes on such things at a regular basis.

Another option is to use old school weapon/armor crystals. The crystals themselves provide the magic and socket into the nonmagical armor to apply bonuses. However, I get the feeling that's not your desire.

This style of game usually is intended to have the desperate flavor that low wealth games create. Having played and enjoyed a fair amount of them, I think so long as you stay very aware of the disparities between each player's attack bonuses and the AC of the monsters and vice versa, you should be capable of running this game without magical armor/weapons so long as you fix the DR/Magic and Incorporeal problems. Basically, don't throw shadows, specters, and will o' wisps at a party without magical weapons unless you account for the increased CR. Same goes for pretty much anything with magical DR, but then that might make for more interesting fights. Suddenly Magic Weapon is a really good spell. Might be worthwhile to make it last a lot longer.

Good Luck with your game.

Appreciate the assistance gentlemen *nodnod*

I am definately aware that my monster choices MUST be adjusted in this version I want to run. I REALLY like the "Super Duper Choco-Fudgiriffic Masterwork" idea as well (makes it more descriptive if I can say "You walk into the armorers and see a fine set of Damascus steel displayed prominently").

Perhaps if I gave the PCs a patron with access to spell resources? Sort of a "If you complete this task for me, you can spend some time with this 3rd level spellbook I collected". Keeps control of the spells and scrolls in my hands, gives the casters a base reason to drive the story along.

Glad to help.

Witches should always have access to a coven they belong to in a world like this. They can learn spells from other witches' familiars. Additionally, an arcane academy hidden away or a quiet mentor or two in a village allows you to give wizards similar spellbook access. And yes, questing spells is good stuff. Also, at higher levels consider allowing spell research at reduced cost with more involved gameplay. Come up with a list of things the player has to do to make spells. I used to hide special spell research documents all over my campaigns for some custom spells and some of the more ridiculous spells from 3.5. (One of these days I'm going to have to write out the capstone 9th level "Ancient" spells that I've been meaning to finish.)

Anyway, the real problem is wizards are balanced around scribing scrolls. A heavy amount of 15 minute adventuring day mitigation is a result of a wizard constantly investing in spellcasting consumables, using them, and then being brought back up to wealth by level via finding new scrolls to scribe into his spellbook. If you don't have a wizard, this isn't a big deal. Sorcerers will be far more effective in this type of game. If you do have a wizard, think long and hard about making consumables available.

Additionally, make absolutely sure the party has a cleric. Without potion drops, the players will need some divine intervention to keep them alive. Unless you have 3 or so secondary healers (Bard/Paladin/Druid/Inquisitor/Witch) the party is going to hurt for healing in many cases.

Moving on to the Flavors of Metal:

If you're going to go with a materials based weapons system for flavor, then you want to go for refinement grades and alloying. I would assign each enchantment you want the players to have access to "Mundanely" to a metal type, and then go with alloying.

Basic +1 enhancements of the world have an adjective relating to their quality
Cast - Basic metal - (Traditionally, casting is less exacting than most forging methods)
Balanced - Masterwork quality - (Balancing gives you easier movement in armor and better stability when swinging a weapon. This primarily involves weighting.)
Forged - +1 weapon - (Forging is generally going to get you a better quality product than a casting, but is a more involved process)
Tempered - +2 weapon - (Heat processes are incredibly important to the ability of a steel to hold an edge)
Folded - +3 weapon - (Old school folded blades are pretty badass in terms of what they can cut)
Hardened - +4 weapon - (Hardening a material actually requires quite a bit of knowledge that were I to go back in time most people would call "Arcane")
Alchemical - +5 weapon - (Basically, this grade represents a perfect blade crafted with expert tolerances in alloy composition)

Cold Iron, Mithril, Alchemical Silver, and Adamantine all function in the same way as in the book, and for the purposes of such a game could have the above processes done to them.

Additionally, the tempering solutions, alloys, etc can all impart certain aspects to a weapon.

Bane - Blood-based tempers (rather than oil based tempers) infuse the weapon with an unnatural ability to damage that particular creature.
Ghost Touch - Heavy metals, such as uranium, which weigh the incorporeal creature down while they slice it up, denying it the ability to retreat to its home plane.
Keen - "Diamondine" - Edging a weapon with diamond dust is a pretty solid way to make it hold an edge.
Thundering - Brass and other low damping metals carry a sound like crazy. Ring the enemy's bell.
Defending - "Full Hilted" - Such a weapon has a flat, solid guard instead of ornately crafted and jeweled guards.
Holy/Unholy - Several types of holy/unholy water and incense is used during tempering.

and many many more. I would highly advise using the standard system of magic items and just repurpose them as masterfully crafted using complext metallurgy.